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Ukraine

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Re: Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:04 pm

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Tenshinai wrote:
Arol wrote:http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

So now the gloves are off! The pretense is over!
The “Little Green Men” in unmarked Russian uniforms that had been observed in the Crimea, and eastern Ukraine, have miraculously metamorphosed into regular Russian Army troops.
So much for the naïve belief that they were simply “local insurgents crossing back and forth between Russia and the Ukraine.
Like Hitler’s plan for Czechoslovakia in the late ’30’s; where he also made use of the German minority in the Sudetenland to fuel his plan. Putin & Co., following the same game book have now gobbled up the Crimea, and is set to add the eastern part of the Ukraine to the pot.
What’s next?
The rest of the Ukraine? Moldova? Georgia?
What will satisfy Putin and the nationalists once they get rolling?


No need for facts or reality when you make up your opinions. Good boy, keep lapping up the propaganda, be a proper shill.


And i find your comparison with nazis exceptionally disgusting when it´s part of the people ruling Kiev that runs around shouting "one people, one nation" and wants to "cleanse" the country from "others".


You got to be kidding! :o
Russians separatists claiming Transnistrian in Moldova and South Ossetia in Georgia.
They gobbled up the Crimea, and are in the process of doing the same to Eastern Ukraine.
These are facts, not propaganda!
With the common denominator, the word: Russian separatists!
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Re: Ukraine
Post by namelessfly   » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:07 pm

namelessfly

Governor Palin predicted that this would happen if Obama was elected.

Anybody see the video of the Governor taking the ice bucket challenge?

Unfortunately; her red blouse was not as thin as it could have been. Damn it!
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Re: Ukraine
Post by Tenshinai   » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:57 pm

Tenshinai
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You got to be kidding! :o
Russians separatists claiming Transnistrian in Moldova and South Ossetia in Georgia.
They gobbled up the Crimea, and are in the process of doing the same to Eastern Ukraine.
These are facts, not propaganda!
With the common denominator, the word: Russian separatists!


*facepalm*

You´re really gullible then i guess.

Crimea as a region has been badly treated by the central government ever since Ukraine became a nation of it´s own. Why do you think they VOTED for greater independence already twenty years ago?
It´s possibly even correct to say that the Kiev regimes have gone as far as to abuse the Crimea region.
And once Kiev started chanting about ein volk, ein reich? At that point it was just a question of time before Crimea wanted out.

And Georgia? Did you bother to check up mr dictator president who started the war there?
Name of Saakhashvili, known for rigging elections, forcing opposition media closed down and suspected of blackmail and murder.

South Ossetia declared independence 1990, Georgia responded by removing the regions autonomy, completely ruining any chance of peaceful settlement.
Mr Misha had the reabsorbing of the region as part of his election promise. He did not care what the people of the region wished.
And in case you missed it, Russia was caught completely pants down in S. Ossetia 2008, when Georgia started the war to forcibly annex the area.
Oh yeah, Russian expansionism truly showing off there... If you´re blind and know exactly ZERO about the history of the area maybe.

And in E. Ukraine? Funny thing you know, the people there didn´t start out as Russian separatists. They didn´t even start out as separatists at all.

The region have worked politically for a federal Ukraine almost since indepence.
And like Crimea, the Kiev regime has not handled the issue in a nice way, and the central government caused it in the first place by being fricking IDIOTS.

If a region is your country´s economic motor, do you:
A, Develop it?
B, At least make sure people there are happy, or
C, Tax it, spend the money on corrupting the capital city while antagonising the population at every turn?

Kiev chose C from the start.
People in the region contribute more per capita to the national budget, but they could get better healthcare in Russia or even western or southern Ukraine, do you really expect people to just sit down and accept that? :roll:

Ukraine´s own governments have spent a quarter of a century to create this mess by corruption, nationalism and stupidity, under multiple separate governments, all so corrupt that they make the cliche "banana republics" look like wonders of efficiency and democracy, and yet, you still claim it to be Russias fault?

Despite there having been at least 5 "change of the guards" in Russian politics during that time?


It wasn´t Russia threatening Ukraine with "You can only sign a trade agreement with us" , that was EU (damn idiots), while Russia stated openly and repeatedly that any treaties offered were non-exclusive and that Russia was perfectly willing to make accomodations in any treaties for the existance of others.


For fun, why don´t you try and take a look at the number of military invasions and interventions since the breakup of the USSR, by Russia and by USA. Compare and see who is being expansionist.

Oh and maybe correlate to which countries tried to dump the dollar as the standard oil currency. Damn, strange how those end up under sanctions for various more or less realistic reasons like Iran. Or get invaded, like Iraq.


But hey, media can´t handle anything more complex than "Russian separatists", so obviously it must be the complete truth.

You even swallowed the nutcase story about the convoy "raiding" Ukrainian military factories? I mean please.
Did you spend even a single second thinking about how plausible that claim was? Huh?

Spare parts are made elsewhere.
The amount of parts or systems that single convoy could have brought with them is utterly negligable compared to the total.
Russia is not in any way constrained by availability of a few systems, especially not considering how Russia spent it´s first decade of getting rid of dependencies from non-national sources.
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Re: Ukraine
Post by Taras_Potatos   » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:04 am

Taras_Potatos
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I start thinking that your employers are sitting somewere in ruSSia.... The East is feeding entire Ukraine? :D Russian, russian ears ewerywere!
Data for first half 2013, yelow bar -- to state budget; blue bar -- subsidies from state budget.
http://www.investgazeta.net/img/st_img/ ... edania.png
Source http://www.investgazeta.net/ekonomika/z ... ja-164683/ , based on data from State Statistics Committee.

Just as i said before you are repeating ruSSian propaganda.
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Re: Ukraine
Post by Zakharra   » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:35 am

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Taras_Potatos wrote:I start thinking that your employers are sitting somewere in ruSSia.... The East is feeding entire Ukraine? :D Russian, russian ears ewerywere!
Data for first half 2013, yelow bar -- to state budget; blue bar -- subsidies from state budget.
http://www.investgazeta.net/img/st_img/ ... edania.png
Source http://www.investgazeta.net/ekonomika/z ... ja-164683/ , based on data from State Statistics Committee.

Just as i said before you are repeating ruSSian propaganda.



This is kind of off topic, but I got to ask, Taras, why do you spell Russia as ruSSia/ruSSian?
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Re: Ukraine
Post by Tenshinai   » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:39 pm

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Zakharra wrote:

This is kind of off topic, but I got to ask, Taras, why do you spell Russia as ruSSia/ruSSian?


To insinuate that they are nazis of course.

Mudslinging is the only real "argument" he has, since just about everything else can draw on facts.
It´s rather pathetic when his own "proof" repeatedly proves him wrong, like the video from the Odessa fire.
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Re: Ukraine
Post by Tenshinai   » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:12 pm

Tenshinai
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Taras_Potatos wrote:I start thinking that your employers are sitting somewere in ruSSia....

...

Just as i said before you are repeating ruSSian propaganda.


Ah yes, historical facts instantly becomes russian propaganda retroactively in your head. :roll:

Can´t handle the truth? I´m not surprised, since you seem to belong to the "ein volk ein reich" people in Ukraine who cannot let go of the notion of Greater Ukraine which somehow seems it must include any and all geography ever claimed by Ukraine.

Data for first half 2013, yelow bar -- to state budget; blue bar -- subsidies from state budget.


Ah yes, nice and neat. And effectively even supports my statement if you look at EAST rather than SOUTHEAST. My my i -wonder- how they managed to make the southeast look like that...

It´s also a neat piece of lying with statistics.
Lets take a look at something simpler shall we? Something that does not put export profits as a nonlocal asset maybe?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... FY2013.jpg


And as for stupid accusations? I´ve already caught you with lies in this thread, you can only claim the same about me, that doesn´t make it any more true.

So if you want to bitch about your poor country, remember that you´ve spent almost a quarter of a century setting yourself up to this and no matter how much you try to blame others for it, the primary respsonsibility for it is held by Ukraine itself.

And EU, which i´m unfortunately part of, still holds a good deal more of the responsibility than Russia does, so stupidly trying to claim that i´m in Russia, you´re effectively reducing the amount of blame on me, thank you.
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Re: Ukraine
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:58 am

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Tenshinai - could you tone it down somewhat please?

The way you are personally insulting a guy whose country is being invaded is a disgrace.
At least stay polite.

Please.
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Re: Ukraine
Post by Daryl   » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:40 am

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I fully agree Bruno. Less insults and blatant bigotry please.

Bruno Behrends wrote:Tenshinai - could you tone it down somewhat please?

The way you are personally insulting a guy whose country is being invaded is a disgrace.
At least stay polite.

Please.
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Re: Ukraine
Post by Taras_Potatos   » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:42 pm

Taras_Potatos
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:04 pm
Location: Ukraine

20km away from invasion force @Mariupol people preparing defence fortifications.
Father of 32 children (29 adopted) with his sons are helping to build fortification.
I, russian man, with my adopted sons are diging tranch near Mariupol preparing to reflect the attack of russian tanks. Oh God, how i wish to wake up and laugh on this nightmare.

http://news.liga.net/news/politics/3106 ... _armii.htm

Mariupol. Live chain of nazis? )) @ blockpost in Novoazovsk direction.
http://www.0629.com.ua/news/608627

DONETSK, Ukraine — On the sidewalk of a busy street beside a checkpoint, a bearded gunman wrapped a woman in a Ukrainian flag and forced her to stand, sobbing in terror, holding a sign identifying her as a spotter for Ukrainian artillery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/26/world ... .html?_r=4
Another foto. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bv8_i6LCAAA20ll.jpg

And news from TerroRussia/
There where no such country as Kazakhstan. Nursultan Nazarbayev created a country on area which no country whas before. Putin@Seligir(Putinugend forum)
After Ukraine we should capture Kazakhstan. Because rusofobs living there. Zhirinovsky
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