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Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.

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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by The E   » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:47 am

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Michael Everett wrote:Immigration increases the demand for homes, school places, hospital beds etc etc. If a country has limited resources to provide such things, then cutting down on immigration is sensible since it buys more time to find ways of expanding said resources, increasing the chances of finding a solution.


This sounds like a fair point, but seems a bit bogus to me.
Not every immigrant needs a hospital bed or a place in a classroom immediately; since most immigration happens at somewhat steady rates (excluding wars or natural disasters for the moment), any momentary overflow can be mitigated over time.
In cases where people are fleeing exceptional circumstances (i.e. wars, natural disasters), your point is more valid, but in those cases (as happened with Syria), refugees can be channelled to a variety of countries; no single country needs to take in all refugees.

Immigrants themselves generally fall into one of four categories, although there can be and often is significant overlap.
The first is the War-zone Immigrant. Forced to leave their home due to violence, they seek a more peaceful place to settle down where they won't wake up dead simply because they were the wrong color/religion/ethnic minority.
The second is the Working Immigrant. These are the ones who seek to create a new life for themselves via their own efforts and abilities. A significant percentage of doctors and nurses in the NHS fall into this.
The third is the Family Immigrant. The husband/wife/child of the one moving, who comes along with them.
The fourth type is the one that unfortunately gives rise to the negative stereotype. The Parasitic Immigrant. Also sometimes called the Economic Migrant (a misnomer, the EM is actually a type 2), the Parasitic Immigrant is one that either claims money from the government because they can or engages in criminal activity detrimental to the country that they are in.


I wonder how many Type 4 immigrants actually do exist though. As far as I can tell from german studies of syrian refugees, there are almost none of those.

While the first three types are generally to be welcomed (barring significant resource-allocation issues as mentioned before), it is the fourth type that makes the news in ways that tars the whole concept of Immigration with the muck of theft, murder, rape and drug-dealing. As such, many people have come to equate the concept of Immigrant as being synonymous with the Parasitic Immigrant subgroup, which is wrong but sadly a very easy mistake to make.


Do they make the news, or do the news make them?
The closest I have to objective data on the issue seems to imply that outrage over immigrant crime is just like outrage over welfare parasites: A few statistical outliers that are overexaggerated, presented in the worst possible light and then disseminated over unchecked channels.

Overall, I stand by my point: In the absence of genuine issues of resource allocation (which aren't really a factor in first-world countries), being anti-immigrant carries within itself a seed of racism.
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by Annachie   » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:09 am

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Mostly, I believe, the so called class 4 is a media beat up.

Case in point, Sudanese.

In Melbourne, the city I used to live in, there was a large problem with Sudanese youths and gang activity.
Plenty of column inches and pixels spent talking about the problem.

But not talking about the actual problem. That these poor kids grew up in war zones and refugee camps where might makes right and violence was the norm. Mostly without parents.

Strangely, a large part of the soloution turned out to be grandmothers. (Honestly. Pairing them up with Sudanese grandmothers. Not even their own)

There are still some issues of course, as many of these kids had a really shitty upbringing.


Of course far more crime in Melbourne, and far more gang activity, is from the New Zealand population.
But they're basically us so it's the Sudanese that the papers scream about.

As I said, mostly beat up.
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by Daryl   » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:35 am

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Annachie, I live in Toowoomba, provincial city population 100k, with another 100k in dependent districts. Population is mixed but a big component is retired farmers. We have had an active Sudanese resettlement scheme going for quite a few years now. Been very successful, low crime, hard workers and well accepted. I don't think I'm being racist to say it's amusing to go into a supermarket, and see six young blonde checkout chicks, and one regal 6 foot plus jet black 15 year old girl talking to her school mates and customers in a broad Aussie accent.
Annachie wrote:Mostly, I believe, the so called class 4 is a media beat up.

Case in point, Sudanese.

In Melbourne, the city I used to live in, there was a large problem with Sudanese youths and gang activity.
Plenty of column inches and pixels spent talking about the problem.

But not talking about the actual problem. That these poor kids grew up in war zones and refugee camps where might makes right and violence was the norm. Mostly without parents.

Strangely, a large part of the soloution turned out to be grandmothers. (Honestly. Pairing them up with Sudanese grandmothers. Not even their own)

There are still some issues of course, as many of these kids had a really shitty upbringing.


Of course far more crime in Melbourne, and far more gang activity, is from the New Zealand population.
But they're basically us so it's the Sudanese that the papers scream about.

As I said, mostly beat up.
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by noblehunter   » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:55 am

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The E wrote:This sounds like a fair point, but seems a bit bogus to me.
Not every immigrant needs a hospital bed or a place in a classroom immediately; since most immigration happens at somewhat steady rates (excluding wars or natural disasters for the moment), any momentary overflow can be mitigated over time.
In cases where people are fleeing exceptional circumstances (i.e. wars, natural disasters), your point is more valid, but in those cases (as happened with Syria), refugees can be channelled to a variety of countries; no single country needs to take in all refugees.


They still need decent housing, water, electricity and all the other infrastructure of modern civilization. Then there needs to be jobs available so they can support themselves.

One could make an argument that since such things may already be in short supply (as in Toronto and Vancouver for instance), immigration should be restricted. I personally think that's a stupid argument since we could just build more or direct immigrants to areas where the supply is less limited.

I'm hoping the Canadian government has a solid plan for rapid increases in housing stock if the US implodes.
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:10 pm

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And his favorite network, always eager to stay on Trump's good side, is now openly making racist arguments on air.

Laura Ingraham went on a rant and openly stated the real driving motivation behind such a large chunk of Trump's most rabid base:

Massive demographic changes have been foisted upon the American people. And they’re changes that none of us ever voted for, and most of us don’t like. From Virginia to California, we see stark examples of how radically in some ways the country has changed. Now, much of this is related to both illegal and in some cases legal immigration.”


Being against "demographic changes" from any kind of immigration both illegal AND legal, is just another way of saying "we're angry that there are getting to be more brown and black people and less white people. That's not the America we want!"

I'm sure some will try to pretend otherwise, but we all know that's BS.
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by pappilon   » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:49 am

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gcomeau wrote:And his favorite network, always eager to stay on Trump's good side, is now openly making racist arguments on air.

Laura Ingraham went on a rant and openly stated the real driving motivation behind such a large chunk of Trump's most rabid base:

Massive demographic changes have been foisted upon the American people. And they’re changes that none of us ever voted for, and most of us don’t like. From Virginia to California, we see stark examples of how radically in some ways the country has changed. Now, much of this is related to both illegal and in some cases legal immigration.”


Being against "demographic changes" from any kind of immigration both illegal AND legal, is just another way of saying "we're angry that there are getting to be more brown and black people and less white people. That's not the America we want!"

I'm sure some will try to pretend otherwise, but we all know that's BS.


Here, here! Get those friggin' Bay area Californians out of my tiny Oregon Community! Yes they're legal immigrants but they fled Cali only to try to remake us into what they left behind.

Call me racist, call me a hypocrite, because I moved here from Louisiana. I miss New Orleans' ethnic/national diversity: the music in the parks, the food, the different clothing styles and ethnic cloting, even the babel of different languages.

Even here there's the Anglo population, the Native Americans, a few Mexicans and Orientals, one family of Blacks and the Californians who don't get along with anyone else.
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by gcomeau   » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:04 pm

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pappilon wrote:
gcomeau wrote:And his favorite network, always eager to stay on Trump's good side, is now openly making racist arguments on air.

Laura Ingraham went on a rant and openly stated the real driving motivation behind such a large chunk of Trump's most rabid base:

"Massive demographic changes have been foisted upon the American people. And they’re changes that none of us ever voted for, and most of us don’t like. From Virginia to California, we see stark examples of how radically in some ways the country has changed. Now, much of this is related to both illegal and in some cases legal immigration.”

Being against "demographic changes" from any kind of immigration both illegal AND legal, is just another way of saying "we're angry that there are getting to be more brown and black people and less white people. That's not the America we want!"

I'm sure some will try to pretend otherwise, but we all know that's BS.


Here, here! Get those friggin' Bay area Californians out of my tiny Oregon Community! Yes they're legal immigrants but they fled Cali only to try to remake us into what they left behind.

Call me racist, call me a hypocrite, because I moved here from Louisiana. I miss New Orleans' ethnic/national diversity: the music in the parks, the food, the different clothing styles and ethnic cloting, even the babel of different languages.

Even here there's the Anglo population, the Native Americans, a few Mexicans and Orientals, one family of Blacks and the Californians who don't get along with anyone else.



Har har...

Yes it is grammatically possible to mean those sentences she spoke in a non racist way. But as we all know the Trump base is not having angry mob scenes at his rallies about those damn Swedes or Russians who are immigrating to the US. Or how they need to build that wall on the Canadian border. Or how the demographic and cultural makeup of the US is changing without their permission to be more European and Caucasian.

No, they're pissed off about the brown and black people coming to the country. And everyone knows it. Everyone. And with every passing day more and more of them are being less and less embarrassed to just admit it because why should they be when the president of the country is on their side!?!? To the point where we are now getting openly racist arguments broadcast on the president's pet news network.

I remember back during the election when most Republicans were still pretending that all this was only about respect for the rule of law and they were ONLY against *illegal* immigration. That fig leaf isn't even bothered with any more.
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by The E   » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:20 pm

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And as Ingraham tries to walk her statements back, keep in mind that she was at a Trump rally openly performing the Nazi salute.
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by gcomeau   » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:25 pm

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And just to reinforce the point..

https://splinternews.com/hey-npr-thank- ... 1828250137

This is the organizer of the upcoming "Unite The Right" rally...

Kessler described himself as “not a white supremacist” and “not even a white nationalist,” adding, “I consider myself a civil and human rights advocate focusing on the underrepresented Caucasian demographic.”


That is the "demographics" they are talking about. The "underrepresented" (because you know, having the vast majority of positions of power in every aspect of US society isn't enough) Caucasian demographic.

White people not having enough power because there are more and more not white people. That is what has them forming screaming anti immigrant mobs at Trump rallies.


(And public service announcement, yes he damn well is a white nationalist)
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Re: Trump is a racist. He isn't even hiding it anymore.
Post by smr   » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:50 am

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So says the boy who cried wolf. I get that your a never trumper.

gcomeau wrote:And just to reinforce the point..

https://splinternews.com/hey-npr-thank- ... 1828250137

This is the organizer of the upcoming "Unite The Right" rally...

Kessler described himself as “not a white supremacist” and “not even a white nationalist,” adding, “I consider myself a civil and human rights advocate focusing on the underrepresented Caucasian demographic.”


That is the "demographics" they are talking about. The "underrepresented" (because you know, having the vast majority of positions of power in every aspect of US society isn't enough) Caucasian demographic.

White people not having enough power because there are more and more not white people. That is what has them forming screaming anti immigrant mobs at Trump rallies.


(And public service announcement, yes he damn well is a white nationalist)
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