Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

Guns, Guns Guns

The Management is not responsible for the contents of this forum. Enter at your own risk.
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pappilon   » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:50 pm

pappilon
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:29 pm

gcomeau wrote:Amazing how those strict literalists so concerned with original intent always manage to forget the entire first half of the amendment they are so reverent of and that whole part about well regulated militias.


MAD-4A wrote:Which says NOTHING about "members of the 'well regulated militias' only." The first part is a preamble for the anti-gun nuts. The actual phrasing of the Amendment states clearly "shall not be abridged" not "for members of the militia only."
...


Tenshinai wrote:The problem is that interpreting it like that requires that you are unable to understand the difference between complete and incomplete statements.

It is ONE amendment, not 1 and a half that has been written incorrectly by someone barely literate.

And that's not even taking into account that you have to ignore the context of the time it was written. When one of the reasons for independence was the British trying to enforce an absence of any kind of organised military among the locals.


No one has mentioned the failure of even one justice to respond to the 4th circuit's (et al)decision to, indeed, abridge the right of individuals to own semi-automatic "assault-style" rifles. That makes 3 circuits now upholding bans. Not even Clarence Thomas has bothered to request certiorari. AMAZING!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Hans   » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:05 pm

Hans
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:54 pm
Location: Stuttgart - Germany

Hello,

guys, i can't tell you how nice it feels to walk around without any weapon and knowing nobody else around has one. Never in my life i had the feeling, i would miss something.
When i lived in the USA i always was afraid some jerk is going to shoot at me, something i never felt in Europe/Germany where i live.
Trust me nobody over here understands your craziness about weapons.
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pappilon   » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:37 pm

pappilon
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:29 pm

Hans wrote:Hello,

guys, i can't tell you how nice it feels to walk around without any weapon and knowing nobody else around has one. Never in my life i had the feeling, i would miss something.
When i lived in the USA i always was afraid some jerk is going to shoot at me, something i never felt in Europe/Germany where i live.
Trust me nobody over here understands your craziness about weapons.


Trust me, a lot of people over here don't understand it either. There are times here I hope some drunken idiot does not actually shoot himself and someone else while I'm grabbing a burger.

And in the tiny town I live in people here do carry. I don't. Although I have.

I travelled a lot for work and stayed in motels with 10 foot security fences and concertina wire on top and a gate that would only open with your room key or a confirmed reservation; Where there was 1" plexiglass protecting the girl at the pizza shop.

I don't get it any ore than you do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:55 am

Daryl
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3488
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

Sigh. Wish I wasn't reopening this thread, but out of respect to the latest group of innocents, I'd like to say the world grieves for you. A comment in one of our newspapers today pointed out that on the rare occasion that an atrocity is committed in an OECD country we all highlight our iconic structures in the national colours of that nation. We don't do it for the US as it would be continual, so no point.

Personally I believe every adult American male citizen should be allowed to have a muzzle loading musket, as long as they are part of a militia. That was the intent of their founding fathers.
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Senior Chief   » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:59 pm

Senior Chief
Commander

Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:02 am
Location: Bear Flag Republic

My high school HAD a JROTC on campus, a pistol team, a rifle team, and a fencing team. Gun safety classes on campus a required class in order to join any of the teams. The start of the fall term in September did not start until after the first weekend of Deer Hunting Season. Where you ask was this high school; 52 miles north of Sacramento in the once great state of California.

Question: do we blame the pencil for words that are spelled wrong, do we blame the spoon and fork for obesity that kills thousands of US citizens every year; but somehow we blame the gun for all the gun related homicides and not the individual who pulls the trigger.

The other question is why did not the FBI do NOTHING when they were told about the perp in the Florida high school shooting?
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:17 pm

Annachie
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3099
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 pm

One minor correction there Senior Chief.

We blame far too easy access to them, and some really stupid attitudes towards them, not the gun itself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:32 pm

Daryl
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3488
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

I own legal guns, and at our big buy back handed in two assault rifles, so am not anti gun as such. However in our country a 19 year old loser would now find it incredibly difficult to locate and buy a semi auto centrefire weapon. Thus the amount of damage they could do is limited. Someone like that loser would be blocked from registering and acquiring a gun license so would have to court a very limited black market for illegal weapons.
In one of our bigger papers I commented that the basis of the US gun culture was the ability to violently overthrow a government that the "good old boys" deemed to have lost its way. Other Australian commenters said I must be wrong, then several US commenters weighed in, not only confirming I was right, but justifying that belief. The Aussies were stunned that people could consider armed treason to be a good thing.

Senior Chief wrote:My high school HAD a JROTC on campus, a pistol team, a rifle team, and a fencing team. Gun safety classes on campus a required class in order to join any of the teams. The start of the fall term in September did not start until after the first weekend of Deer Hunting Season. Where you ask was this high school; 52 miles north of Sacramento in the once great state of California.

Question: do we blame the pencil for words that are spelled wrong, do we blame the spoon and fork for obesity that kills thousands of US citizens every year; but somehow we blame the gun for all the gun related homicides and not the individual who pulls the trigger.

The other question is why did not the FBI do NOTHING when they were told about the perp in the Florida high school shooting?
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:49 pm

Annachie
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3099
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 pm

It's even more disturbing than that.

Slavery.

The southern states wanted to be able to call up armed militias to put down slave revolts.

That's part of why the Militia's were the way they were and the 2nd is the way it is.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:34 am

The E
Admiral

Posts: 2683
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Meerbusch, Germany

Senior Chief wrote:Question: do we blame the pencil for words that are spelled wrong, do we blame the spoon and fork for obesity that kills thousands of US citizens every year; but somehow we blame the gun for all the gun related homicides and not the individual who pulls the trigger.


The person who is pulling the trigger gets plenty of blame. But at some point, we do have to ask how that person got a rifle and ammunition into their hands, and since more often than not the answer is "legally", it is definitely understandable if someone wants to look at changing the requirements for gun ownership in some ways.

You see, there's a huge difference between pencils and eating utensils and guns (or, for that matter, cars and guns): Guns are the only tool on that list that are designed to wound and kill other human beings. Using a gun to kill someone isn't some sort of perversion or misuse of the gun, it's the intended purpose -- the gun is, after a fashion, blameless, but the legislators who allowed unqualified people access to it, the sellers who sold it to unqualified people, the manufacturers who market their guns as an expression of ~manliness~ and the culture which frames guns as symbols of ~freedom~ bear at least some responsibility for why your country has gun-related deaths at a rate far in excess of what other first-world countries experience.

Now, here's something you need to realize: If you (and this is addressed to all you gun lovers out there) continue to frame the gun control debate as a choice between total freedom of ownership and complete bans, do not be surprised if a complete ban is going to happen at some point. By refusing to even talk about common-sense techniques (that actually have fairly broad approval) that would reduce the risk of guns landing in the wrong hands, you're setting yourself up for failure.

The other question is why did not the FBI do NOTHING when they were told about the perp in the Florida high school shooting?


I got a better question, why did your country do NOTHING after any of the previous incidents of people shooting up schools or clubs or concerts or cinemas? Why do your leaders think "thoughts and prayers" is the only thing they can do? Why do criminal acts by mexicans or muslims result in immediate and draconian bans on those groups, but white kids shooting children is something that you just can't do anything about?
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pappilon   » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:43 am

pappilon
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:29 pm

Senior Chief wrote:The other question is why did not the FBI do NOTHING when they were told about the perp in the Florida high school shooting?
Kid had no criminal or juvenile record no reported mental health issues, nothing actionable, then they dropped the reporting ball by not passing anything up the chain to the head office in Miami.

[quote="The E] I got a better question, why did your country do NOTHING after any of the previous incidents of people shooting up schools or clubs or concerts or cinemas? Why do your leaders think "thoughts and prayers" is the only thing they can do? Why do criminal acts by mexicans or muslims result in immediate and draconian bans on those groups, but white kids shooting children is something that you just can't do anything about?[/quote]

Short answer is NRA Lobby giving over $15,000,000 to the Republican National Committee and about the same to individual senators. As one Senator honestly stated, we will change our stance on firearms legislation when we start losing elections over it.

As it has been stated in other topics, you need 60 senators to vote for "cloture", an end to debate and move for a vote on the floor. Currently the republicans have 51 votes, which effectively kills any national legislation.

They win elections by being pro unlimited gun ownership. Or put the other way, candidates espousing gun ownership limits do very poorly in elections.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Top

Return to Politics