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Spoilers! Loose threads

Aliens? Invading aliens? What will Earth do? Well...we may have a few more resources than we first thought. Come join a friendly discussion about David Weber's newest Tor series - "Out of the Dark."
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:00 am

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Randomiser wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
Bottom line is that I can a see a society evolved from predators both manipulating the universe around them AND remaining separate from the universe as I postulated. Herd creatures would see such a separation as being too unnatural for their comfort.

Seems to me there are are a good few faulty assumptions jumping into this discussion. It starts above with the ideas that creatures are divided neatly into predators, who are probably solitary, and herd creatures. This ignores pack predators like wolves and *ahem* 'Puppies' and also solitary herbivores like black rhinos and koalas who generally only get together to mate.

Any space-faring race has to have worked out some way to act together in large groups with differentiated skills, or they are NOT going to be able to develop the technology to build a space-ship or much else.

The distinction made in another post between omnivores who can delay gratification and thus plant stuff and carnivores who are always direct action types because their food is based on hunting is also spurious and downright silly. Why on earth can't predators or carnivores work out that ranching might be a good idea?

Any technologically advanced 'predator' race must have worked out how to conserve and increase their food supply somehow, because you can't build up a sizeable population, and even less a sizeable population density (AKA a village or town) based on direct hunting from the wild any more than an omnivore race can do it by hunter-gathering from the wild.

Assumptions? Sure. Not faulty though. Predators eat other beings and so must be able to group beings as food and not food. The concept of "Other" is fundamental to their mind set and not likely to change as the predator species grows more technologically skilled. Sure they can work together in packs or larger groups and can overcome that basic mindset. Yet, the mindset is there and needs to be overcome or adapted to the needs of a complex society.

My point is that core outlook will influence how the predator thinks. That outlook makes it easier for predators to view other beings as existing primarily to serve them in some capacity. Extended further, predators are more likely to view the universe around them as existing to serve them. I am not saying that MUST be the case. Only that it may be the case. Especially, with a predator species that has achieved unparalleled technological development. That devil ment would powerfully reinforce the mindset.
Re: Spoilers! Loose threads
Post by Keith_w   » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:35 pm


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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Quoting from The Praxis philosophy, from Walter Jon Williams' "Dread Empire's Fall" series (another sequel of which I'm waiting for and he's even slower than David): "all that is important is known."

David's not slow, he's just got too many series happening :x
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

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