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Into the Light snippet #12

Aliens? Invading aliens? What will Earth do? Well...we may have a few more resources than we first thought. Come join a friendly discussion about David Weber's newest Tor series - "Out of the Dark."
Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by Mycall4me   » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:28 am

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I just want to chime in my agreement with the poster that asked, why would baen still be offering e-arcs for the faithful if it was damaging their bottom line regarding selling the hc book? If that WAS a real problem I don't think any sensible company would continue a policy that cost them in overall sales of their product.
I think I heard something about an e-arc actually INCREASING the sales of the hard copy, for several reasons, such as many people would actually prefer the hc for their permanent library, and so they would actually be buying the book twice. :ugeek:
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Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by FriarBob   » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:40 am

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Mycall4me wrote:I just want to chime in my agreement with the poster that asked, why would baen still be offering e-arcs for the faithful if it was damaging their bottom line regarding selling the hc book? If that WAS a real problem I don't think any sensible company would continue a policy that cost them in overall sales of their product.
I think I heard something about an e-arc actually INCREASING the sales of the hard copy, for several reasons, such as many people would actually prefer the hc for their permanent library, and so they would actually be buying the book twice. :ugeek:


This is at least partly true. I am uncertain if if it actually increases hardback sales but it definitely does increase total sales. A large number of people who buy the e-ARC turn around and buy the final e-book too. (Probably almost all.) And some on top of that get a HC or PB as well. Profit dollars for an e-ARC plus an e-book at least matches their profit level for one HC and almost certainly actually doubles it. (And that's at Baen e-book prices, Tor's obscene e-book prices would make it even higher.)

But even with outright proof of their idiocy rubbed in their noses, changing an idiotic policy in an idiotic company run by idiots is harder than scaling mount Everest. Sometimes I'm amazed Macmillan hasn't completely cleaned house yet but Tor's morons are somehow managing to not quite kill the golden goose yet... well probably aren't even as close as I think they are to doing so... but either way don't hold your breath expecting sanity to break out anytime soon.
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Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by Mycall4me   » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:58 pm

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FriarBob wrote:
Mycall4me wrote:I just want to chime in my agreement with the poster that asked, why would baen still be offering e-arcs for the faithful if it was damaging their bottom line regarding selling the hc book? If that WAS a real problem I don't think any sensible company would continue a policy that cost them in overall sales of their product.
I think I heard something about an e-arc actually INCREASING the sales of the hard copy, for several reasons, such as many people would actually prefer the hc for their permanent library, and so they would actually be buying the book twice. :ugeek:


This is at least partly true. I am uncertain if if it actually increases hardback sales but it definitely does increase total sales. A large number of people who buy the e-ARC turn around and buy the final e-book too. (Probably almost all.) And some on top of that get a HC or PB as well. Profit dollars for an e-ARC plus an e-book at least matches their profit level for one HC and almost certainly actually doubles it. (And that's at Baen e-book prices, Tor's obscene e-book prices would make it even higher.)

But even with outright proof of their idiocy rubbed in their noses, changing an idiotic policy in an idiotic company run by idiots is harder than scaling mount Everest. Sometimes I'm amazed Macmillan hasn't completely cleaned house yet but Tor's morons are somehow managing to not quite kill the golden goose yet... well probably aren't even as close as I think they are to doing so... but either way don't hold your breath expecting sanity to break out anytime soon.



Oh, I'm not at ALL thinking that Tor would actually DO an e-arc, my peeve spiel was just a kind of wishfull thinking that SOMEONE at Tor MIGHT take a chance on TRYING it just ONCE, a guy can dream though. And besides, they would probably pick a lesser quality novel that I most certainly wouldn't be interested in!
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Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by Keith_w   » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:12 pm

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drothgery wrote:
dvdscar wrote:What he said. And even Baen's perceived nimbleness and flexibility is pretty limited. Eric Flint and I turned in the final manuscript for The Span of Empire at the end of September 2014. They originally told us it wouldn't get onto the schedule until mid-2017, but Eric convinced them to find an earlier slot. It still wasn't published until September 2016.


I'd guess -- as a reader rather than writer (other than small bits of fanfic) -- that Baen's probably rather more willing to move things around for RFC (especially for a mainline Honorverse book) than for others. I've read that back in the day Tor's turnaround for Jim Rigney (better known as Robert Jordan) was much faster than it was for anyone else (sometimes to the books' detriment; some of the middle books in the Wheel of Time clearly needed more editing).


I wouldn't be surprised to discover that part of the problem is that TOR is part of a larger publishing house (McMillan) whereas Baen is a standalone publisher.
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A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:45 am

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dvdscar wrote:What he said. And even Baen's perceived nimbleness and flexibility is pretty limited. Eric Flint and I turned in the final manuscript for The Span of Empire at the end of September 2014. They originally told us it wouldn't get onto the schedule until mid-2017, but Eric convinced them to find an earlier slot. It still wasn't published until September 2016.

drothgery wrote:I'd guess -- as a reader rather than writer (other than small bits of fanfic) -- that Baen's probably rather more willing to move things around for RFC (especially for a mainline Honorverse book) than for others. I've read that back in the day Tor's turnaround for Jim Rigney (better known as Robert Jordan) was much faster than it was for anyone else (sometimes to the books' detriment; some of the middle books in the Wheel of Time clearly needed more editing).

Keith_w wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to discover that part of the problem is that TOR is part of a larger publishing house (McMillan) whereas Baen is a standalone publisher.

Baen is not completely independent - They are the F&SF (sub-publisher) for Simon & Schuster, and only get so many slots per month for publication, so they are under some of the same constraints that Tor is.
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Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by Keith_w   » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:28 pm

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fallsfromtrees wrote:
dvdscar wrote:What he said. And even Baen's perceived nimbleness and flexibility is pretty limited. Eric Flint and I turned in the final manuscript for The Span of Empire at the end of September 2014. They originally told us it wouldn't get onto the schedule until mid-2017, but Eric convinced them to find an earlier slot. It still wasn't published until September 2016.

drothgery wrote:I'd guess -- as a reader rather than writer (other than small bits of fanfic) -- that Baen's probably rather more willing to move things around for RFC (especially for a mainline Honorverse book) than for others. I've read that back in the day Tor's turnaround for Jim Rigney (better known as Robert Jordan) was much faster than it was for anyone else (sometimes to the books' detriment; some of the middle books in the Wheel of Time clearly needed more editing).

Keith_w wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to discover that part of the problem is that TOR is part of a larger publishing house (McMillan) whereas Baen is a standalone publisher.

Baen is not completely independent - They are the F&SF (sub-publisher) for Simon & Schuster, and only get so many slots per month for publication, so they are under some of the same constraints that Tor is.

Thanks for that info, I didn't realize they were part of a larger organization.
--
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by dvdscar   » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:21 pm

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Keith_w wrote:
fallsfromtrees wrote:Baen is not completely independent - They are the F&SF (sub-publisher) for Simon & Schuster, and only get so many slots per month for publication, so they are under some of the same constraints that Tor is.

Thanks for that info, I didn't realize they were part of a larger organization.


Baen is not a S&S subsidiary. It is privately owned: 1/3 by Toni Weisskopf, 1/3 by Tom Doherty, and 1/6 each by Jim Baen's two daughters.

S&S is Baen's distributor. That's all.

David
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Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by dvdscar   » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:32 pm

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FriarBob wrote:
Mycall4me wrote:I just want to chime in my agreement with the poster that asked, why would baen still be offering e-arcs for the faithful if it was damaging their bottom line regarding selling the hc book? If that WAS a real problem I don't think any sensible company would continue a policy that cost them in overall sales of their product.
I think I heard something about an e-arc actually INCREASING the sales of the hard copy, for several reasons, such as many people would actually prefer the hc for their permanent library, and so they would actually be buying the book twice. :ugeek:


This is at least partly true. I am uncertain if if it actually increases hardback sales but it definitely does increase total sales. A large number of people who buy the e-ARC turn around and buy the final e-book too. (Probably almost all.) And some on top of that get a HC or PB as well. Profit dollars for an e-ARC plus an e-book at least matches their profit level for one HC and almost certainly actually doubles it. (And that's at Baen e-book prices, Tor's obscene e-book prices would make it even higher.)

But even with outright proof of their idiocy rubbed in their noses, changing an idiotic policy in an idiotic company run by idiots is harder than scaling mount Everest. Sometimes I'm amazed Macmillan hasn't completely cleaned house yet but Tor's morons are somehow managing to not quite kill the golden goose yet... well probably aren't even as close as I think they are to doing so... but either way don't hold your breath expecting sanity to break out anytime soon.


Absolutely the eARCs make money. Larry Correia made a Facebook post a few years ago about how the advance for one of his books paid out just from the eARC sales. I suspect something similar is true for most of MWW's books.

From what I can tell, Macmillan is even more infested with idiots than Tor is. Macmillan is not their own boss, and hasn't been for years. They're a part of the Holtzbrinck Publishing Group conglomerate, one of the Big 5 of the publishing world. Enough said.

David
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Re: Into the Light snippet #12
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:15 pm

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dvdscar wrote:Baen is not completely independent - They are the F&SF (sub-publisher) for Simon & Schuster, and only get so many slots per month for publication, so they are under some of the same constraints that Tor is.

Thanks for that info, I didn't realize they were part of a larger organization.[/quote]
Keith_w wrote:Baen is not a S&S subsidiary. It is privately owned: 1/3 by Toni Weisskopf, 1/3 by Tom Doherty, and 1/6 each by Jim Baen's two daughters.

S&S is Baen's distributor. That's all.

David

[quote="fallsfromtrees"]
I misuderstood the wiki page on Baen. It did say that Jim had started it as an alternative to revamping S&S Pocket Books SF Line that kind of why I said sub publisher instead of subsidiary.
========================

The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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