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Into the Light Snippet #11

Aliens? Invading aliens? What will Earth do? Well...we may have a few more resources than we first thought. Come join a friendly discussion about David Weber's newest Tor series - "Out of the Dark."
Re: Into the Light Snippet #11
Post by PeterZ   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:00 am

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An empire is at its core much like the US federal government. Using the Charisian model the empire establishes the legal foundation that all the subject kingdoms must adhere to. Pretty much like the Individual states in the US comply with the US Constitution. Why not simply extend the offer of Statehood to any nation that wants to partipate in the new world polity?

Call a constitutional convention to establish the core structures of the world government. I believe the US bicameral model would work best. The upper chamber has the same number of reps from each subject polity and the lower chamber has proportional representation to its population. Each nation state decides how to select their representatives. The chief executive might be selected from one of the elected leaders of the member states. Whether that choice is made in an election or by the combined elected legislators and heads of government is irrelevant.

So in this model, unless the King of England becomes a functioning head of government, he can't become head of the new world federal government.
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Re: Into the Light Snippet #11
Post by Bluesqueak   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:44 am

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Eagleeye wrote:
DrakBibliophile wrote:First, Empires don't necessarily need Emperors. Rome was an Empire (if not in name) long before the Emperors. ;)

Second, seriously I could see the advantage for having King Henry as "Terran Emperor". With the US having the control of the alien tech, there might be concerns about it being an American Empire. Giving King Henry the role of "Terran Emperor" might lessen those concerns.



Ah, but because of their common history (language, anyone? :D) the British Monarchy could probably be seen as a kind of American Puppy ... better, you would choose your constitutional Head of state from another monarchy (if you're right and we get a constitutional monarchy in the end).

After all, there were a really big bunch of royal or imperial families before the Shongairi-invasion: in Europe alone there're (aside the brits) the royal houses of Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden ... add to that the Grand Duke of Luxembourg and the Princes of Liechtenstein and Monaco. And don't forget the non-europe royal houses: the arabian Kingdoms and Emirates, the Japanese Emperor, the King of Thailand, the King of Bhutan, the King of Jordan ... there're even official Kingdoms in Africa (Lesotho, for example)!

And I admit - I'm a little bit of a fan of the Swedish Royal House. If Crown Princess Victoria survived, she would put a really charming face on the new empire. :)


You missed out Vlad III in your royal tour. :lol:

Anyway, the reason I was thinking the Brits is that RFC has specifically chosen to have a cadet branch of that family a) survive and b) get a name check. And he's picked a fictional name that references a real current Prince with army service and combat experience. And also harks back to the very first scene of the first book, where another King Henry is busy winning a battle.

It might just be a little authorial joke, of course. :)
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Re: Into the Light Snippet #11
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:45 pm

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Well, it's already been mentioned that he's Not A Figurehead King. ;)

And seriously, I've long held the opinion that if you're going to have a Monarch, give him something important to do.

IE Constitutional Monarch doesn't need to be Powerless Monarch.

David Weber's fictional Constitutional Monarchs haven't been Figureheads.


Randomiser wrote:
DrakBibliophile wrote:First, Empires don't necessarily need Emperors. Rome was an Empire (if not in name) long before the Emperors. ;)



But that's the point, surely, it only became an empire in name once it had an emperor.

As to who it might be, the Brit might well have the biggest plausibility and name recognition given the Commonwealth and the US fascination with our royal family. He would also be used to the idea of having a purely figurehead role, not something that could be said for some of the Arab or Asian contenders.
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Re: Into the Light Snippet #11
Post by justdave   » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:59 pm

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Well, there's that aphorism, that the english-speaking people are divided through a common language ... I just don't know who said it. It's sarcastic enough that my guess would go to Mark Twain, but I'm reasonably sure he wasn't the one ...


Churchill in his History of the English Speaking Peoples
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Re: Into the Light Snippet #11
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:26 am

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justdave wrote:
Well, there's that aphorism, that the english-speaking people are divided through a common language ... I just don't know who said it. It's sarcastic enough that my guess would go to Mark Twain, but I'm reasonably sure he wasn't the one ...


Churchill in his History of the English Speaking Peoples


Churchill might have used it, but there are a lot of sources that cite George Bernard Shaw (though nobody has found the exact line in anything he wrote). For that matter, Oscar Wilde had something similar in a play.
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