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Son of GOD EXISTS

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by cthia   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:34 pm

cthia
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Totally Awesome! That kind of vantage point presents a rare opportunity for self-reflection, self-correction. You are very welcome. Don't squander your opportunity.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by Imaginos1892   » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:27 pm

Imaginos1892
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cthia wrote:When Jesus was asked, what is the most important law, he didn't say…

…blah, blah, blah…

Well, now, that right there is why these topics keep getting Duckk’d. We want answers and evidence, and you waste six posts congratulating yourself for your unsubstantiated ‘faith’ and putting up quotes from your favorite collection of Bronze Age folk tales like they’re supposed to mean something.

Well, they don’t.

Quotes from ‘Moby Dick’ or ‘Gulliver’s Travels’ would carry just as much weight.

You still, after all this time, have not provided any evidence that there is any truth to those old folk tales, or that your ‘faith’ is based on anything that actually exists.

Taken all together, your posts answered no questions, provided no evidence, imparted no knowledge, and conveyed no useful information. As ‘The E’ would say, nothing there but a lot of empty wankery.

You claim that your immaterial, metaphysical god has done some profoundly physical and material things. Such as creating a whole universe out of nothing. Yet now, when we seek for any verifiable evidence, you claim your god ‘doesn’t do those things’. You can’t have it both ways. Either your god affects the real universe, or does not.

‘Faith’ is a fixed belief in something without evidence or logic, that ‘The Faithful’ refuse to change even when they are proven wrong, again and again, by evidence and logic. In short, ‘faith’ is indistinguishable from a delusion. I guess when enough yahoos have the same delusion they get to call it ‘faith’. Maybe that’s why you are so obsessed with telling us how many people agree with you.

Faith does not provide knowledge. Indeed, faith is the antithesis of knowledge — when knowledge conflicts with faith, you are commanded to deny the knowledge. Cue the ‘young-earth creationists’ and their insane assault on science education. They have spent millions of dollars publishing entire books full of lies, nonsense and misrepresentation which they want the government to force-feed to grade-school children. That is the face of ‘faith’.
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Faith is the intellectual equivalent of welfare — it's for those too lazy to work for knowledge.
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by Exidor   » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:42 pm

Exidor
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Exidor wrote:God Created the Rainbow. Beautiful.


gcomeau wrote:Again, an unsupported claim imparting literally no knowledge or understanding of any kind.


gcomeau wrote:And all religion does is pretend to know things it doesn't know.


And I think I've possibly figured out why we are currently in disagreement - I feel that Religion does indeed hold answers, but I'm looking at it from a different angle, in that I already believe in the existance of a creator. Recall, Religion is "the belief in and worship of..." - I believe in, accept the existance of, and worship an Almighty Creator - and what answers I find in Religion are quite valid for me. Thus, the statement, "God created the Rainbow" does not seems to me to be a false statement.

You, on the other hand, do not appear to have that same start point, and therefor no answer that Religion (as a whole, or any particular denominations thereof) gives is valid for you - for that matter, any statement that gives God as a start point is automatically ruled null in value. Sound like a reasonable conclusion?

Regardless, I'm (sorta) fine with you not finding answers in Religion - you have your life to live, and your path is yours to take, not mine to dictate. I'll simply wish you well as you travel. :)
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by Exidor   » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:14 pm

Exidor
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Imaginos1892 wrote:
Exidor wrote:I just noted I've gone from Midshipman to Ensign. Rank is a matter of chattiness, then?

Yep, it's based on your number of posts. I think there's a list somewhere in the forums. I think Fleet Admiral takes 10,000 posts.


Yowsa. Fleet Admiral is not in my immediate future, then. :)

Imaginos1892 wrote:If more than a very, very few of them do, the community is destroyed.


Quite true, no disagreement at all. And yet, psychopaths and sociopaths are a strange sort, y'know? If they are willing to accept that... then, sadly, that's what they'll do.

One of the reasons I support my local law enforcement, to hopefully keep that sort of thing at bay.

Imaginos1892 wrote:That they arrogantly claim a monopoly on morality. That they want to deny me the dignity of knowing right from wrong because I don't believe in their fairy tales. That they claim a higher priority for rules that apply only to their chosen fantasies than the ones prohibiting murder, rape and robbery. And that they seek to impose all of their rules, even the irrational ones, on everybody, including me.


Hmm... seems a bit of anger there. On the other hand, I don't know what bad experiences you've had with such that perhaps the anger is justified. But, maybe keep in mind that not all those who believe in religion feel that way? Some of us know quite well that ethics and morality are not exclusive to religion. :)

Imaginos1892 wrote:Life is too short for me to pander to delusions.


(large grin) I need to get my glasses subscription changed - at first, I read that as "ponder" and responded differently.

Imaginos1892 wrote:Look at it this way: there is one valid worldview, the one that accurately reflects reality.


Pardon, but now who is being arrogant? A worldview is a particular philosophy of life or conception of the world - everyone has their own worldview. Yours is valid for yourself, but you have no monopoly on it.

Imaginos1892 wrote:There are a near-infinite number of possible delusions.


Only "near" infinate? :)

Imaginos1892 wrote:I choose not to waste my time on any of them.


No? If you would - why are you here, in the message forum of a man who writes delusions for a living?

Imaginos1892 wrote:If you believe those stories.


True - acceptance of some stories requires some measure of belief.
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by Exidor   » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:15 pm

Exidor
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Eyal wrote:They explicitly weren't the entirety of the Law, as the Torah contains extensive sections of law (and that's leaving to Oral Law aside).


Agreed.
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by Exidor   » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:23 pm

Exidor
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Daryl wrote:So your god would cast a truly good person out, just because in life they hadn't told him (or her) that they believed in them?
Doesn't sound like someone I'd like to associate with.


I truely believe God knows His own, in mind, heart and deed - and because of that, all His own will be welcome in His Kingdom.

Not only does the mileage of others vary... so do their appetites. :)
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by Imaginos1892   » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:54 pm

Imaginos1892
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Exidor wrote:And I think I've possibly figured out why we are currently in disagreement - I feel that Religion does indeed hold answers, but I'm looking at it from a different angle, in that I already believe in the existance of a creator. Recall, Religion is "the belief in and worship of..." - I believe in, accept the existance of, and worship an Almighty Creator - and what answers I find in Religion are quite valid for me.

You believe in an invisible magic man living in the sky without reason or cause. There is no evidence that your god, or any god, exists in any sense. You can’t even postulate any way in which the universe we observe would be different if your god exists, or does not. Why would anybody believe something so preposterous without any evidence?

Exidor wrote:Thus, the statement, "God created the Rainbow" does not seems to me to be a false statement.

I can create a rainbow in my back yard by spraying water under a light source and looking at it from the correct angle. Does that mean there’s a god in my garden hose? Or does it mean that all rainbows are the inevitable result of the physical properties of light, and the optical properties of water drops? Many, many scientists have investigated those properties quite thoroughly and none of them have found even a hint of any god anywhere.

Exidor wrote:You, on the other hand, do not appear to have that same start point, and therefor no answer that Religion (as a whole, or any particular denominations thereof) gives is valid for you - for that matter, any statement that gives God as a start point is automatically ruled null in value. Sound like a reasonable conclusion?

My start point is reality. What is. How do I know what is? Because everything that is real produces real, tangible, observable effects on me or my environment. Things I can see, hear, feel, measure, interact with, and use to determine what will probably happen next. If a ball rolls off the edge of a table, I can be pretty sure it will fall to the floor. If it’s a rubber ball, it will probably bounce. How would the ball fall, or bounce, differently if your god was real?

Exidor wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:Look at it this way: there is one valid worldview, the one that accurately reflects reality.

Pardon, but now who is being arrogant? A worldview is a particular philosophy of life or conception of the world - everyone has their own worldview. Yours is valid for yourself, but you have no monopoly on it.

How is it arrogant to observe that there is only one reality? How could any worldview which does not conform to that reality, which seeks instead to deny that reality, be valid? And how could anybody have a monopoly on reality?

Exidor wrote:Regardless, I'm (sorta) fine with you not finding answers in Religion - you have your life to live, and your path is yours to take, not mine to dictate. I'll simply wish you well as you travel.

And look down your nose at me for not having ‘faith’. There are no answers in religion, except the meaningless fake answer ‘Goddidit’ made up thousands of years ago by ignorant superstitious primitives who didn’t know how to find real answers. Today we do know how to find real answers — but ‘the faithful’ still cling to that useless old fake answer anyway.

Exidor wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:I choose not to waste my time on any of them.

No? If you would - why are you here, in the message forum of a man who writes delusions for a living?

Because he doesn't pretend his delusions are Absolute Truth, and seek to impose them by force on the whole rest of the world. Indeed, he demands that we PAY for his delusions! But we do, because they're so much fun.

Hey, I write some delusions myself, and I don't claim they're Absolute Truth either. I think mine are fun, too.
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If God existed, he'd bitch-slap all those idiot creationists for making him look bad.
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by gcomeau   » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:18 pm

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Exidor wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:I choose not to waste my time on any of them.


No? If you would - why are you here, in the message forum of a man who writes delusions for a living?


A defining characteristic of a delusion is thinking it is real.

Fiction engaged in for entertainment purposes does not fall in that category.
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by gcomeau   » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:28 pm

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Exidor wrote:
Exidor wrote:God Created the Rainbow. Beautiful.


gcomeau wrote:Again, an unsupported claim imparting literally no knowledge or understanding of any kind.


gcomeau wrote:And all religion does is pretend to know things it doesn't know.


And I think I've possibly figured out why we are currently in disagreement - I feel that Religion does indeed hold answers,


Not according to my understanding of that term.


but I'm looking at it from a different angle, in that I already believe in the existance of a creator. Recall, Religion is "the belief in and worship of..." - I believe in, accept the existance of, and worship an Almighty Creator - and what answers I find in Religion are quite valid for me. Thus, the statement, "God created the Rainbow" does not seems to me to be a false statement.


Neither is it a response conferring any knowledge. It is just a story you are telling yourself that lacks any knowledge content. You know nothing more about a rainbow after having heard it than you did before you heard it.

What God exactly is is undefined. How his powers operate are undefined. What his ultimate motivations are are undefined. EVEN within the context of the worldview of someone who believes in religion as you do. Unless you would like to try to argue that you grasp and understand the mind and powers of God?

So assigning "God" as the cause of something is the functional equivalent of just saying "it happened for... ummm... reasons.... by... umm... methods... used by... ummm... someone or something..."


You can try putting that down on a test in a class and try to convince your teacher you "answered" a question about where rainbows come from but I doubt you will get very far in your persuasion.


Religious responses are non answers trying to pretend to be answers.
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Re: Son of GOD EXISTS
Post by smr   » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:25 pm

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Question: Why do you care if someone believes in God (the creator)?

Are they hurting you by the belief in a higher power?

Why are you wasting your valuable time trying to sway another human being that they are wrong? That seems strange to me. Could it be that somewhere in your soul that a tiny part of you fears and/or believes in a creator.

Why the anger in the post?

The facts are you can not prove or disprove God. So now the subject becomes a philisophical question. Who am I? What is my place within the Universe? What do I stand for? What do I believe in?

That is our journey that only individually can we answer those questions over a lifetime of life.

Shalom!
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