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#TimesUp Movement

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#TimesUp Movement
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:55 pm

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I'm gob smacked.

Nobody wishes anyone's reputation to be smeared by false accusations. And if that has happened in the MeToo movement, it's a shame. I'm willing to bet the farm that not only are 95+ % of the accusations true, but that the victim downplayed the actual truth, out of embarrassment. I think you'd feel differently about it if the sordid reality hit closer to home. Like your own wife, lover, sister, mother or even yourself. I'm willing to bet 1 out of every 3 women have experienced some sort of sexual abuse in the workplace.

It happened to me in high school. Probably wouldn't have been so bad if the harasser was female. "I just want to see what all the girls are so fascinated about. I've heard rumors. Just let me see it."

WTF! I was a 190lb 6ft quarterback and I didn't say a damn thing about the sexual harassment that went on daily. I was too embarrassed. I can understand why women keep quiet. Especially when their livelihood is threatened. In Hollywood, many of these women began working in their career fields as early as 5-yrs-old or younger, waiting to get that big break. When they do get one, they don't want their career to come to a screeching halt for trying to protect themselves from getting accosted. What pains me is the many women over the years of showbiz that had to live with feeling dirty. They don't have the option of finding another job like most people do. That is their job. That is their career, so they can't change careers either. And why should they have to? One powerful man tells them...

"Come to my hotel room so we can discuss changes to the script."

When they get there the creep emerges from the bathroom naked and is all over them. Then they find themselves returning home in tears, without their underwear. Now their career is ruined because suddenly no one is calling anymore. How do you think the women feel who did put out? Having to make a career decision on the spot and not being as strong, or maybe as lucky, as others. Naive and alone in the big, sordid world of Hollywood. Brings me to tears.

What about women where fate has made them the breadwinner? Or single parent females? Who finally land this job, moved across the country to get it. Settled the kids in new schools, yatta yatta yatta, then bam! A decision has to be made between common decency and feeding the family. If she'd wanted to become a prostitute, she wouldn't have spent so much money and time on her education.

There are millions of women in the US that still won't come forward. It is funny how people are feeling sorry now for the way they treated Monica Lewinsky. I hope it doesn't hit home for you, I really wouldn't want you to have to swallow that regret.

If you can feel that way after hearing about what Larry Nassar did to so many very young American gymnasts, I can only raise a brow and swallow a lump in my throat.

The TimesUp movement is both sad and profound. Within the phrase is the ugly sordid truth that America had to mature before the time was right to stand up for our women.

The fact that you feel that way is one reason many woman haven't, didn't, or will never come forward now or in the future.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by Roguevictory   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:14 am

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I honestly think you are being generous with your estimates of how many of the accusations are true. Seventy percent or so I would agree.

But unless the accused admits they did it the only way to separate the true stories from the false is evidence and very few of the accusers are offering any beyond their word.

Assuming that the accused are innocent until proven guilty is not perfect but I vastly prefer it to the reverse.
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by cthia   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:13 am

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Roguevictory wrote:I honestly think you are being generous with your estimates of how many of the accusations are true. Seventy percent or so I would agree.

But unless the accused admits they did it the only way to separate the true stories from the false is evidence and very few of the accusers are offering any beyond their word.

Assuming that the accused are innocent until proven guilty is not perfect but I vastly prefer it to the reverse.

I truly hope you are correct. From preliminary discussions with many of my own friends who confided in me in tears, I don't think so. My circle of friends and colleagues are a small representative sample, comparatively, so you could be right. Again, I truly hope you are. I'm honest about hoping it never hits home for you. I could handle myself, but I wouldn't want it happening to the women in my life, or yours.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by Roguevictory   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:00 am

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I hope the guilty get punished. I just worry that if we slip to believing the accuser without requiring proof we will start punishing falsely accused innocents along with the guilty.
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by pappilon   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:35 am

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Roguevictory wrote:I hope the guilty get punished. I just worry that if we slip to believing the accuser without requiring proof we will start punishing falsely accused innocents along with the guilty.



Who says there were no investigations?? No, there were no "criminal" investigations, neither were there "criminal allegations." Most of this is workplace sexual harassment. Most of it was accusations formally made with HR(the joke of jokes), which promptly buried all of it as like as not.

And HR hates heroes, boat rockers, muck rakers etc. and tens to slowly eliminate them thus protecting the perpetrators. Now, to avoid lawsuits based od section II of the Sexual Harassment law:Hostile work environment, the same HRs are moving to do what should gave been done years ago.

Yes, I'm sure sexual harassment is so culturally pervasive that lots of men don't even realize when they have crossed the line. Al Franken and maybe several others may have been wrongly accused, at least in their own mind. Perhaps some accused men are innocent.

Sadly we can all come up with recent news articles where women have claimed rape then recanted. There is always that possibility. But so do reputations around the workplace. When everyone" knows what is happening and that no one in "management" csres. Is it without "due process" that when management is called on it, they finally and most reluctantly perform their duty to their other employees
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by Roguevictory   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:01 am

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Of course the question oif where the line is remains. One of my cousins recently got in trouble at work because he asked a coworker out and she complained that he was harassing her.
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by cthia   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:06 am

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Sometimes incidents make people needlessly jumpy. But you can't fault them that those crimes caused unfortunate side effects. Besides, perhaps being jumpy will save them down the road.

Many men and teens alike would die st the chance to be kissed by Katy Perry and I'm sure her sparking the internet to go rabid by kissing an American Idol contestant was purely meant as a gesture of warmth to the contestant.

The guy had never been kissed and says he was uncomfortable. He also says he was saving his first kiss for a special girl. He has a right to feel that way. He also added that he didn't feel harrassed by Katy. However, even I wonder if he will feel differently about having kissed Katy Perry on national tv in front of millions, years down the road. Regardless, it didn't make it right. Though Perry clearly meant well. She meant very well. It is a shame that her gesture has attracted negativity. Not meaning to disrespect that guys feelings.

At any rate, the acceptable climate of sexual harassment has to change. A woman should be able to wear anything she likes that is legal. A miniskirt is not a license to look up a woman's skirt while you're standing behind her in an elevator or to grab her ass when near her. Or film under her skirt with your damn mobile phone because the tech has made it so easy.

Taylor Swift did the right thing to legally take the idiot to task that grabbed her ass. That's her ass, regardless of how pretty or how grabbable it might be. Hands off.

America has fostered an environment sprang from the objectification of women where certain don'ts have become dos. Women have had to endure it for far too long, and the time has come to put an end to it. Time truly is up.

I praise the movement. Women are a strong species in most things. But being sexually harassed can break the strength of many women who don't know how to handle that one thing. Especially in a society that seems to support it. Look at our piss poor example set by our own president. Refer to the sexual harassment of Honor Harrington and her crew on her maiden voyage to Grayson. Honor can eat an SD with ease and pick her teeth with a BC, but sexual harassment knocked her off balance. A woman shouldn't have to choose between doing her job and keeping unwanted hands off her person. That isn't fair, or acceptable on my watch.

Having said all of that. I'm more concerned with our young women, our little girls who we may be sending the wrong message to by continuing to condone such nonsense and by unwitting vote failing to protect them. What has surfaced about the many young gymnasts sexually abused over and over for years by Larry Nasser is disgusting. Truly disgusting. Several cases happening right in front of their own parents who didn't have a clue. Parents that I'm sure wish they can castrate the pervert.

I feel dirty myself, for having taken part in the magic, excitement, patriotism and thrill of the Olympics over the years, when in so many cases the girl performing was holding back tears, shame and regret just under the surface. How many girls bombed because they were distracted or emotionally broken. One woman testified that her daughter unceremoniously quit then later killed herself. Having been exposed to how a prostitute feels, in your preteen years is an ugly reality. Especially when all you wanted to do since watching your very first Olympics with your family as a snotty nosed kid was to skate, or vault, or swim for your country.

Shameful and disgusting suddenly seem like watered down words.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by cthia   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:09 am

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cthia wrote:
Kudos.

Hence, the "Me Too" movement trending now. And the "Me Too" movement I posted about upstream.
Roguevictory wrote: Ugh the me too movement. Otherwise known as the guilty until proven innocent movement which is the opposite of every idea of justice I hold dear.

snip
pappilon wrote:I think somewhere in the 30s or 40s Katherine Hepburn exposed Louis B Mayer's casting couch and made it public. Just like OFS and their condoning of the raping and pillaging of the verge planets, it is common knowlege that certain studio executives, current US presidents, et al rape their way through their lives.

Now the silently complicit are geting their noses rubbed in it and al they are doing is what should never have been condoned in the first place. If people are losing their jobs for "alleged behavior" in the workplace, it is not the fault of #MeToo. dO not blame the "alleged" victims here.
ldwechsler wrote:The problem itself is not so much rank as asymmetrical power.
Ian McKellan, the actor who once ran Royal Shakespeare Theater in England, said that a lot of actresses enclosed photos and resumes with the letters "DRR" at the bottom. That mean "director's rights respected." They would sleep with the director.

When an actress agrees to have sex because she wants a part, it's not really rape but more of a business deal with the producer, etc. having all the power. The actress (and remember it could also be the actor) winds up doing things not wanted in order to get a part that could make them a fortune.

I remember reading that Jennifer Lawrence at the start of her career wound up being photographed wearing only a tiny bit of plastic in front of her genitals. And she was one of a group of women. But she got the part and made millions of dollars since.

The strong power of the top brass here comes from the way they can change someone's life. If I, when I was a school administrator, lined up a group of women who wanted to be guidance counselors and asked them to undress (actually just lining them up and comparing them dressed would do it) would basically end my career.

When the chances of being a movie star are in the mix, all bets are off.


I'm not liking that at all. Just because producers may be able to get away with it doesn't make it right. Just because an actor/actress is willing to do what it takes to feed his/her family doesn't make it right that either has to. It also isn't fair that when two or more actresses who may be up for the same part, that the bid doesn't go to the one who has the most talent, or possibly more suited to the role, but rather the one who lands in bed. Remove the immoral and illegal perks of an immoral producer and make the playing field level.

Prostitution is illegal anyways. Besides, it is demeaning to a woman who has the acting talent to have to sleep, not act, her way to the top. That playing field is not equal. There is no school for prostitution. I don't think they teach the Kama Sutra in acting schools. Nor should they. And I don't think little girls who begin grooming themselves at such an innocent age for an acting career is told, or aware, that they may have to fornicate for a part.

Immorality isn't right simply because it is accepted or overlooked. That's how we arrived here in this godforsaken predicament in the first place.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by aairfccha   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:42 pm

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Do I smell desperation from the feminisn't McCarthyite harpies that not every accusation is blindly believed any more and that redefining "proper" behaviour backfires a bit with people noticing it dehumanises society at large?

In countless ways social touch is being nudged from our lives. In the UK, doctors were warned last month to avoid comforting patients with hugs lest they provoke legal action, and a government report found that foster carers were frightened to hug children in their care for the same reason. In the US the Girl Scouts caused a furore last December when it admonished parents for telling their daughters to hug relatives because “she doesn’t owe anyone a hug”. Teachers hesitate to touch pupils. And in the UK, in a loneliness epidemic, half a million older people go at least five days a week without seeing or touching a soul.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42200092
It's known here as the Pence rule after Vice-President Mike Pence, who said he doesn't ever meet alone or have dinner alone with female colleagues in order to avoid any perception of impropriety.

Anyone else having a Wonko the Sane moment here?

http://www.lsunow.com/daily/opinion-trending-metoo-movement-hindered-by-recent-false-accusations/article_ab67a200-ff25-11e7-be1b-7766e6b2542e.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/metoo-backlash-feminism_us_5a621cf7e4b01d91b2552f26

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/debate-room-me-too-witch-hunt-3803090-Jan2018/

Those fortune cookies preaching motherhood and apple pie don't really wash any more. I strongly suggest the real feminists rein in the scandalmongers and the twitterati before there is a serious backlash or society is totally poisoned.
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Re: #TimesUp Movement
Post by n7axw   » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:35 pm

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There is no question but what Jennifer Lawrence and others have been exposed to is utterly corrupt and deeply wrong.

But it is also true that when simply making an allegation is assumed to mean automatic guilt, you are going to have a new crop of victims.

My sympathy is strongly with the women. But lets face it. Women are as capable of playing politics, malicious lying or simply not properly judging a given context as men. They simply can't be presumed to be saints.

That being the case, I don't have a clue as to how to deal fairly with this matter.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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