Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

The Four Horsemen

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by Imaginos1892   » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:44 pm

Imaginos1892
Commodore

Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:24 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

MAD-4A wrote:If that's what you believe - then stop wasting our time with your myths.

Well, when I see such stupid arguments, I just can’t resist blowing them up.

MAD-4A wrote:No, she said you can't see "air" If it's liquid in a bowl then it's not air. If it's air then you can't see it.

So, you would claim that water is not still water when it's frozen? When it's steam?

MAD-4A wrote:Everything is accelerating (falling) away from everything else not in its close neighborhood. This is gravitational acceleration caused by the infinite universe beyond what is observable through light (no some unknown magical 'dark' energy that nobody can detect).

No, it's only your ignorance that's infinite. The net non-local gravitational force at every point in an infinite universe is zero. The gravity from any given direction is exactly canceled by the sum of gravity from the opposite direction. Just like a uniform hollow sphere has zero gravitational effect on every point inside it.

MAD-4A wrote:In an infinite Open Universe, with an infinite chance to do anything, ANYTHING that can happen does happen - so if it's possible then it is. simply because there were an infinite number of tries to do so, and an infinite (though smaller) number of those tries succeeded (they had to.) Therefore God Must exist because he could exist and therefore couldn't not exist. (If you could follow that)

So, you claim that your god must exist, and must have created the universe, because you believe, without evidence, that the universe is infinite. A logical Klein bottle. But just like a Klein bottle, it's not real. An entity with the characteristics you attribute to your god can NOT exist within this universe, even if it is truly infinite. You claim your god transcends the physical laws of this universe, which means it/he/she/whatever can NOT be a product of it.

Here are some things I’ve always wondered about:

Why did your god completely neglect us for 197,000 years, meddle intrusively for 1,000 years, and then ignore us again for the last 2,000?

Why did your god let the Neanderthals go extinct? Didn’t he create them too?

Why is your god so obsessed with our sex lives? You make him out to be some sort of celestial Peeping Tom. Why such blind fixation with imposing unconditional life-long heterosexual monogamy on everybody? A god doesn’t have more important things to do?

We’re human. We make mistakes. Sometimes we marry the wrong person. Why should two people be forced to endure a lifetime of misery because they’re not allowed to correct that mistake? It’s stupid, it’s destructive, and ’til death do us part’ makes murder the obvious solution. How many murders have been committed over the last 2,000 years because ‘divorce is a sin’?

I caught David And Bathsheba on TCM last month and all I could think was, ‘one little divorce would solve all their problems’. All they needed was a Las Vegas of the Ancient World! Of course that wouldn’t leave much of a story…
———————————
I used to live on a farm. I know what bullshit smells like.
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by pappilon   » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:05 am

pappilon
Captain of the List

Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:29 pm

Heck if you want Bible porn, all you have to do is read the further adventures of Lott and his two daughters.

You remembr Lott, right. He and his wige and 2 lovely daughters escaped (I forget which city either Sodomy or Gonorhea or maybe they are the ancient twin cities,)and his wife full of regret looks back and gets turned into a phallus of salt.

Lott and children make camp on a hill to watch the cities burn. The kids start feeling sorry for themselves, what with the entire world burning and decide they don't want to be old maids with a house full of cats so they throw a party, get the old man drunk and have their way with him.

And God saved them because they were the only good people?
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by MAD-4A   » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:21 pm

MAD-4A
Captain of the List

Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:48 pm
Location: Texas

Imaginos1892 wrote:Well, when I see such stupid arguments, I just can’t resist blowing them up.
And that's YOU'RE opinion - which I think is stupid so get off my post!


Imaginos1892 wrote:So, you would claim that water is not still water when it's frozen? When it's steam?.

No - that's why its called ICE and STEAM - duh
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by The E   » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:35 pm

The E
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 12:28 pm
Location: Paderborn, Germany

MAD-4A wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:Well, when I see such stupid arguments, I just can’t resist blowing them up.
And that's YOU'RE opinion - which I think is stupid so get off my post!


Oh, is that how that works? Can you just TELL people that their opinions are stupid to get them off your threads now?

Funny, I wasn't notified of that little update to the board rules....

Imaginos1892 wrote:So, you would claim that water is not still water when it's frozen? When it's steam?.

No - that's why its called ICE and STEAM - duh


Man, you must have slept through a lot of basic physics education.
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:22 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8722
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Imaginos1892 wrote:
MAD-4A wrote:If that's what you believe - then stop wasting our time with your myths.

Well, when I see such stupid arguments, I just can’t resist blowing them up.

MAD-4A wrote:No, she said you can't see "air" If it's liquid in a bowl then it's not air. If it's air then you can't see it.

So, you would claim that water is not still water when it's frozen? When it's steam?

MAD-4A wrote:Everything is accelerating (falling) away from everything else not in its close neighborhood. This is gravitational acceleration caused by the infinite universe beyond what is observable through light (no some unknown magical 'dark' energy that nobody can detect).

No, it's only your ignorance that's infinite. The net non-local gravitational force at every point in an infinite universe is zero. The gravity from any given direction is exactly canceled by the sum of gravity from the opposite direction. Just like a uniform hollow sphere has zero gravitational effect on every point inside it.

MAD-4A wrote:In an infinite Open Universe, with an infinite chance to do anything, ANYTHING that can happen does happen - so if it's possible then it is. simply because there were an infinite number of tries to do so, and an infinite (though smaller) number of those tries succeeded (they had to.) Therefore God Must exist because he could exist and therefore couldn't not exist. (If you could follow that)

So, you claim that your god must exist, and must have created the universe, because you believe, without evidence, that the universe is infinite. A logical Klein bottle. But just like a Klein bottle, it's not real. An entity with the characteristics you attribute to your god can NOT exist within this universe, even if it is truly infinite. You claim your god transcends the physical laws of this universe, which means it/he/she/whatever can NOT be a product of it.

Here are some things I’ve always wondered about:

Why did your god completely neglect us for 197,000 years, meddle intrusively for 1,000 years, and then ignore us again for the last 2,000?

Why did your god let the Neanderthals go extinct? Didn’t he create them too?

Why is your god so obsessed with our sex lives? You make him out to be some sort of celestial Peeping Tom. Why such blind fixation with imposing unconditional life-long heterosexual monogamy on everybody? A god doesn’t have more important things to do?

We’re human. We make mistakes. Sometimes we marry the wrong person. Why should two people be forced to endure a lifetime of misery because they’re not allowed to correct that mistake? It’s stupid, it’s destructive, and ’til death do us part’ makes murder the obvious solution. How many murders have been committed over the last 2,000 years because ‘divorce is a sin’?

I caught David And Bathsheba on TCM last month and all I could think was, ‘one little divorce would solve all their problems’. All they needed was a Las Vegas of the Ancient World! Of course that wouldn’t leave much of a story…
———————————
I used to live on a farm. I know what bullshit smells like.

Jiminy Crickets! MAD-4A, better you than me.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by MAD-4A   » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:28 pm

MAD-4A
Captain of the List

Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:48 pm
Location: Texas

The E wrote:Oh, is that how that works? Can you just TELL people that their opinions are stupid...

Ah, so it's ok for atiests to call my post
Imaginos1892 wrote:such stupid arguments,
but my reply isn't?
The E wrote:... to get them off your threads now?
If your sole purpose is to disrupt the tread and spread your own myths, rather than contribute to the thread, then yes, you have no business on it, go create your own "I know and can detect everything the exists or has ever existed" thread. don't disrupt someone else's thread to spread your myths.
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by Daryl   » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:08 pm

Daryl
Admiral

Posts: 2294
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

They aren't the ones with myths. If you put this up you must expect discussion. Most on this site will be of a scientific or engineering bent, which disciplines call for analysis and critical thought. None of which generally relates well to faith unsupported by facts.
MAD-4A wrote:
The E wrote:Oh, is that how that works? Can you just TELL people that their opinions are stupid...

Ah, so it's ok for atiests to call my post
Imaginos1892 wrote:such stupid arguments,
but my reply isn't?
The E wrote:... to get them off your threads now?
If your sole purpose is to disrupt the tread and spread your own myths, rather than contribute to the thread, then yes, you have no business on it, go create your own "I know and can detect everything the exists or has ever existed" thread. don't disrupt someone else's thread to spread your myths.
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by The E   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:29 am

The E
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 12:28 pm
Location: Paderborn, Germany

MAD-4A wrote:
The E wrote:Oh, is that how that works? Can you just TELL people that their opinions are stupid...

Ah, so it's ok for atiests to call my post
Imaginos1892 wrote:such stupid arguments,
but my reply isn't?


Yes.

You see, the thing here is this: You posted something that, sorry, is pure bullshit. To wit:
In an infinite Open Universe, with an infinite chance to do anything, ANYTHING that can happen does happen - so if it's possible then it is. simply because there were an infinite number of tries to do so, and an infinite (though smaller) number of those tries succeeded (they had to.) Therefore God Must exist because he could exist and therefore couldn't not exist. (If you could follow that)


The first paragraph of your post talked about gravity in an infinite universe. Fine, I really don't have the astrophysics expertise to check that off-hand; it doesn't matter anyway. Because you follow it up with the above, which I assume means you think this is a conclusion to be drawn from what you were writing before. Except it doesn't: The behaviour of gravity doesn't imply that "anything that can happen, does". Furthermore, "God must exist because he could exist" is an unsupported statement: We have no evidence that a god (as defined by your bible) could exist, much less that he does.

You then follow this up with some fine examples of you misunderstanding physics, elementary physics that you should've been taught early in your science education but which you either missed completely or forgot.

If you want to believe in a god, fine. But don't try to claim that your belief is the only correct one by using scientific buzzwords. You, I am sorry to say, are not eloquent enough to do so properly anyway; Hell, you are pretty much incapable of holding a discussion, as you are likely to prove in your reply to this. I am very much looking forward to your argumentation by font size and colour.
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by pappilon   » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:34 am

pappilon
Captain of the List

Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:29 pm

Ok, I did survive 12 years of Catholic School 4 of which included religion class along side my college prep curriculum.
IIRC The Christian Concept of god is a priori. (S)He existed sui generisand caused, [presumably] with some Jedi mind trick, to call the universe into existence.

I think "Anything that can happen must happen" has to incorporate at least 3 logic fallacies. But then anything can happen until something actually does, then the rest of the possibilities can not happen, Which has nothing to do with the a priori assumption everything that is created must have been created by something that existed before naything, therefore it must be a very intelligent, wise,powerful, just, merciful, did I say Intelligent being. Which certainly is a logic fallacy.

"I believe it therefore it is proven" is the same logic error as cogito ergo sum. If you want to believe, fine with me.
Top
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by Eyal   » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:00 am

Eyal
Commander

Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:09 pm
Location: Israel

MAD-4A wrote:
Eyal wrote:That something is theoretically possible is not evidence that it actually happened.

If the Universe was a closed finite universe, then you would be right, and its acceleration would also be slowing down, not speeding up.
In an Infinite-open Universe then the infinite gravity beyond each mass would pull it away from any others not within a close enough proximity. since all matter would be subject to the same situation throughout infinity in all directions, the result would be an accelerating expansion (falling away from) As with two astronauts, in orbit between the Earth and Moon, one closer (gravitationally) to Earth and one closer (gravitationally) to the Moon, each would see the other accelerating away from them (towards the other planetary body). this is what we see in this Universe. Everything is accelerating (falling) away from everything else not in its close neighborhood. This is gravitational acceleration caused by the infinite universe beyond what is observable through light (no some unknown magical 'dark' energy that nobody can detect).


I have no idea what this has to do with the issue.

In an infinite Open Universe, with an infinite chance to do anything, ANYTHING that can happen does happen - so if it's possible then it is. simply because there were an infinite number of tries to do so, and an infinite (though smaller) number of those tries succeeded (they had to.) Therefore God Must exist because he could exist and therefore couldn't not exist. (If you could follow that)


Assuming infinite time and energy, anything that can happen will happen - but the sticking point is the "can happen". That statement would allow God to exist only if He can come into existence under the universe's natural laws.

Think of it as a train running on a rail. Periodically, it encounters a junction and can go either way. Given infinite time, it can wind up anywhere; and if you have infinite trains, eventually there will be a train everywhere. However, the catch is that "anywhere" and "everywhere", while infinte, are limited to those places where the rail reaches; other lcoations are uncreachable.

Furthermore, even accepting your argument, God's existence would be guaranteed over the lifetime of the universe. It does not require that He already exists at this point in time.
Top

Return to Free-Range Topics...