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The Four Horsemen

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by The E   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:08 am

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Daryl wrote:I'm trying to be polite and respectful here, but if you have a religious bent, how do you know that you have picked the right horse?
There have been thousands of religions throughout human history and prehistory. How do you know that your interpretation of a particular version of one (Christianity in this case) is superior to - pick one - Hindu, Buddhism, Roman or Greek, Rainbow Serpent (Australian aborigines, arguably the oldest known and longest existing), Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ramesis, Sun Worship, Inca & Aztec, enough - lots.


Having been in a few threads like these, I can guess the answer: He read in a book that there's only one true god.
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by Michael Everett   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:45 pm

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The E wrote:Having been in a few threads like these, I can guess the answer: He read in a book that there's only one true god.

Yep, the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
May His noodley appendages bring you great happiness.
:lol:
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by pappilon   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:43 pm

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Michael Everett wrote:
The E wrote:Having been in a few threads like these, I can guess the answer: He read in a book that there's only one true god.

Yep, the Flying Spaghetti Monster!
May His noodley appendages bring you great happiness.
:lol:



Oh My Space Hamster. You guys are SOOO dead. There IS only one true god: Cthuthu Space Hamster is his chief prophet.
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by MaxxQ   » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:50 pm

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Oh, my mistake. I thought this would be a thread about these four horsemen:

https://youtu.be/n7IHU28aR2E

Too bad. It would have been a better thread... :twisted:
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by pappilon   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:44 am

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MaxxQ wrote:Oh, my mistake. I thought this would be a thread about these four horsemen:

https://youtu.be/n7IHU28aR2E

Too bad. It would have been a better thread... :twisted:


That four, or Roy & Dale and their friends Stan and Oliver will do nicely. Oh wait, this is a serious topic! :oops: :cry: please disregard.
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:18 am

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pappilon wrote:Gnosticism has been declared HERESY.
Of course it's heresy, since the definition of heresy is "thinking for yourself". Anyone outside the Catholic priesthood who actually reads scriptures and decides for themselves, instead of blindly and ignorantly believes whatever the catholic priesthood tells them too, (including all of us here) is by definition a heretic! So if you don't want to be a heretic, don't participate.

pappilon wrote: One gnostic text remains for some obscure reason. So why are we focusing on that particular text?
... ummm... because it was in the Bible ...

pappilon wrote: Also hard to ascribe the rider as anyone besides DEATH carrying his Sickle, the symbol of the harvest.
I don't remember seeing anywhere in the actual text that mentions a sickle, that is Dante, who claimed God sinned - Anger/Wrath is 1 of the "seven deadly sins" and God was ANGRY/WRATHFUL throughout most of the bible, therefor according to Dante he committed one of Dante's sins. To me that completely disproves anything he had to say.
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:27 am

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Dilandu wrote:Seriously, this is just stupid. Especially the red one.
Don't like it - don't participate!
Dilandu wrote:The USSR would have nuclear technology anyway; our physical school were as good as any foreign. Yes, the technological "help" allowed us to cut a few years, so what? How does those few years would "bring more peace"?
Practically anyone can 'get it in a few years' once they know it's out there, even Pakistan, we've been lucky with Iran and North Korea, managing to block those psychopaths, but they are still trying. That doesn't mitigate the FACT that the U.S.S.R. was GIVEN the technology, not just 'some help developing it'. They were "GIVEN" the working technology that they DID NOT HAVE at the time!

Dilandu wrote:By allowing USA to star World War Three for some reason and kill dozens of millions? Oh yeah, a good idea of peace, no doubt - in which humanity could rest.
The US wouldn't have star ... (do you mean start?) WWIII. Truman wouldn't even let MacArthur use them in an open conflict against China, in Korea. But using the threat to force (other petty mass murdering dictators) to step down from their palaces instead of having to allow one to prop-up dozens more and cause countless conflicts and acts of mass-murder around the world, could have brought global peace.
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:06 am

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The E wrote:I'm sorry, I thought you said you meant this seriously? Because, as anyone who knows anything about theology and the history of religions knows, this statement is so hilariously wrong that it can only be taken as sarcasm.
Which obviously you don't.

The E wrote:Islam is, basically, version 3 of the abrahamic religions (the first two being judaism and christianity, respectively). To say it is "the antithesis" of christianity is flat out wrong; yes, its precepts are different (and sometimes harsher) compared to christianity, but there is no explicit reversal of christian teachings in it. Given that Jesus is canonified in Islam as one of Allah's prophets (albeit a lesser one than Mohammed, obviously), it would be a bit hard for islam to be antithetical to christianity.

Now, granted, islam doesn't rate him as an actual divine being (just as Mohammed isn't divine). But I would think that the teachings of Jesus and his disciples is valid regardless of whether or not Jesus was actually god incarnate; him being divine or him being god's messenger doesn't actually change anything.

Furthermore: You describe Israel as unique in the world because they "base their economy on jewish law and tradition". Please explain how they are different to, say, modern social democracies like Sweden and Norway in not "institutionalizing money in the way the west does".

As anyone who actually knows anything about them would know, the text of the Koran was derived from the Christian Bible and Torah, but the fundamental teachings are not the same.

The fundamental basis of Christianity is that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, the son of God, and the one true sacrifice for all humanities sins. It is only through his sacrifice that a person can reach heaven.

Islam completely disavows all of this, claims Jesus was just a profit and the way to get to heaven is through your own personal works, that (as an analogy, somehow a filthy pig rolling in the mud can somehow clean itself off without any help from the farmer). Then there's the section about the "12th Oman" the Muslim belief that God will send his next 'holy man', who will bring God back to Earth and usher in the 'kingdom of God'. The same text is in the Bible, everything the Koran says he will do is in the Bible, only difference is that in the Bible he is called by another name, the 'Anti-Christ', Deceiver and son of Satan.

Do they both say 'don't murder your next door neighbor'?
Do they both say 'don't go down to the market and rob the place'?
Do they both say 'don't have sex with someone else's wife'?
of-course they do, so do Buddhism, Hinduism and Shintoism, are they basically the same? NO

Do they both say 'there is only one God'?
yes, So does Zoroastrianism (which you apparently didn't know about), that doesn't make their fundamental teachings the same.

Anyone who knows their basic teachings knows that they are complete opposites, which, by-the-way is why they have spent the last millennium and a half trying to eradicate each other.
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by The E   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:09 pm

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MAD-4A wrote:The fundamental basis of Christianity is that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, the son of God, and the one true sacrifice for all humanities sins. It is only through his sacrifice that a person can reach heaven.

Islam completely disavows all of this, claims Jesus was just a profit and the way to get to heaven is through your own personal works, that (as an analogy, somehow a filthy pig rolling in the mud can somehow clean itself off without any help from the farmer). Then there's the section about the "12th Oman" the Muslim belief that God will send his next 'holy man', who will bring God back to Earth and usher in the 'kingdom of God'. The same text is in the Bible, everything the Koran says he will do is in the Bible, only difference is that in the Bible he is called by another name, the 'Anti-Christ', Deceiver and son of Satan.


Christianity says that by following the example of Jesus, we attain the right to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Islam says that by following the teachings of Allah and his prophets, we attain the right to enter the kingdom of heaven.

This is pretty much equivalent. This whole bullshit about how we can only obtain grace because Jesus died for our sins? It's meaningless, on a purely mechanical level; It does not matter in the slightest for the common believer. If christian dogma were different, if it resembled islam more, we'd be having the same discussion.

Do they both say 'don't murder your next door neighbor'?
Do they both say 'don't go down to the market and rob the place'?
Do they both say 'don't have sex with someone else's wife'?
of-course they do, so do Buddhism, Hinduism and Shintoism, are they basically the same? NO


That is certainly a great point you made there. Tell us more about how being similar means being opposite.

You know, you may think that a bold and italicized NO is an argument, but it actually isn't. I think you need to add more font size and probably some red colouring too for it to actually count (At least I think that's what argumentation on the internet is? I'm not sure. You see, I believe in presenting arguments, not refutation, but I might be in the minority on this)

Do they both say 'there is only one God'?
yes, So does Zoroastrianism (which you apparently didn't know about), that doesn't make their fundamental teachings the same.


Zoroastrianism is part of the lineage of monotheistic religions that, as one of its branches features the abrahamic religions. These are distinct classifications, which is why I didn't mention it.

I mean, the term "abrahamic" refers to religions that are exclusively post-zoroastrianic; I'd have thought that a keen scholar of theological matters such as yourself would be familiar with the term and not try to purposefully misunderstand it in order to try and land a cheap shot.

I was obviously wrong about that, my apologies.

Anyone who knows their basic teachings knows that they are complete opposites, which, by-the-way is why they have spent the last millennium and a half trying to eradicate each other.


Ah! Finally a metric by which we can see whether or not a religion is "opposite" to another. This makes many things much more clear. So using this logic, we can see that catholicism and anglican/protestant christianity are opposite. We can also see that christianity at large is opposite to judaism and any number of african as well as native american religions.

Yes, that clears that right up.

In other words, in case you were unable to see the sarcasm inherent in this post: If you think you want to make a point about comparative theology, you better make sure you bring better game than this, son. Because this weak-sauce shit may fly on facebook or in Breitbart comment pages, but it sure as shit ain't gonna fly here.
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Re: The Four Horsemen
Post by The E   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:19 pm

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MAD-4A wrote:I don't remember seeing anywhere in the actual text that mentions a sickle, that is Dante, who claimed God sinned - Anger/Wrath is 1 of the "seven deadly sins" and God was ANGRY/WRATHFUL throughout most of the bible, therefor according to Dante he committed one of Dante's sins. To me that completely disproves anything he had to say.


...You do know that anger and wrath are different things in catholic catechism, right? Wrath is anger against the undeserving or when it is sustained for too long or too intensely. God, by definition, cannot be guilty of it: His anger is always directed at the deserving, and always tempered by forgiveness.

I wonder why subtleties like this, which are cornerstones of catholic teaching (which Dante's Divine Comedy is based on) elude someone as well-read on theological matters as you are.
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