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My condolences

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: My condolences
Post by Imaginos1892   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:24 am

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One of the first things I was taught about guns in the Navy was that full-auto is a great way to waste ammunition and hit everything except the target. Full auto is for stabilized rifles firing from fixed positions — that is, machine guns.

The 'bump stock' is a gimmick for idiots. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of those.

Hey, I've got a great idea. Let's outlaw idiots!

I once shot off a 20-round magazine in about 4 1/2 seconds on an unmodified semi-auto rifle. Who needs more fun than that? The target sat there mocking me the whole time. I found a few random holes in it. I could probably do that four or five times before my finger gets tired.
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Re: My condolences
Post by pappilon   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:38 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:One of the first things I was taught about guns in the Navy was that full-auto is a great way to waste ammunition and hit everything except the target. Full auto is for stabilized rifles firing from fixed positions — that is, machine guns.

The 'bump stock' is a gimmick for idiots. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of those.

Hey, I've got a great idea. Let's outlaw idiots!

I once shot off a 20-round magazine in about 4 1/2 seconds on an unmodified semi-auto rifle. Who needs more fun than that? The target sat there mocking me the whole time. I found a few random holes in it. I could probably do that four or five times before my finger gets tired.
———————————
Governments can only print money — they can't make it worth anything.


IIRC this is why the Army dropped the 7.62 in favor of the 5.56, The Vietnamese regulars couldn't hang on to their rifles when they fired them in full automatic. And, now, in Afghanistan it is biting them because the 5.56 doesn't have the range of the Soviet 7.62.

And rapid firing of my .308 results in some pretty pathetic groupings. They all seem to track up and to the right.
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Re: My condolences
Post by pappilon   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 am

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Fireflair wrote:I also believe that more than you, papp, would simply ignore any sort of mass gun ban in the US which required the turn in of your weapons. I'm certain my cousins in Virginia and West Virginia would hold on to theirs, as would many of my friends here in Kentucky and Tennessee. As you pointed out, a door to door search would simply mean most moving their guns to the shed out in the back of their property.



A proposed law here would outlaw Magazines greater than 10 rounds. The State Sheriff Association lobbyist told the committee that the sheriffs would consider owning these magazines a secondary offense, meaning that if one exercised his 2nd amendment right of open carry with an AR15 clone with a 30 round magazine, the police would do their obligatory stop and discuss, no citation for the mag. BUT if that rifle was used in commission of a crime or found in a legal search, charges would then be filed. They refused to interpret the law so that it would make criminals out of otherwise law respecting citizens.

The proposal failed in committee. I am not opposed to "sensible" restrictions, I just fail to see how, beyond ban and confiscate, they will be effective. Ban 30 round magazines, ban bump stocks, ban rifles that bear a superficial resemblance to real military assault rifles. XCon't expect the mentally ill to change their irrational behavior.
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Re: My condolences
Post by Daryl   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:04 am

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A technical aspect that is being debated is about the two big aviation fuel tanks 650 yards away. No info yet on whether they held AVTUR or AVGAS, but the latter is highly inflammable. They have found numerous dents but no actual leaks, so a couple of questions need to be asked.
If he didn't consider the potential until he started then he may have just sprayed them with 0.223 (5.56mm for civilised folk) (John Ringo's Barbie gun ammo) in his excitment. Or was that why he had a sniper 0.308 (7.62mm for we non US folks) with a bipod?
Either way with his money and access to ordinance we can all be grateful that he didn't get a Barrett 50 cal with some tracer rounds.
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Re: My condolences
Post by Daryl   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:13 am

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Very true.
My understanding that the only stable full auto ever made was the Bren on its bipod. Turned out to be useless as an antiaircraft gun as it had no cone of fire. You either hit with the first round or missed with all of them. I have fired many different ones and this does seem true to me. Even the highly accurate Steyr AUG bull pup pulls up to the right.
Another story told was that the 5.56 supplanted the 7.63 for two reasons. Firstly you can carry more rounds, and secondly wounding your opponent is superior to killing him. A wounded opponent takes two stretcher bearers out of the fight for a time.

pappilon wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:One of the first things I was taught about guns in the Navy was that full-auto is a great way to waste ammunition and hit everything except the target. Full auto is for stabilized rifles firing from fixed positions — that is, machine guns.

The 'bump stock' is a gimmick for idiots. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of those.

Hey, I've got a great idea. Let's outlaw idiots!

I once shot off a 20-round magazine in about 4 1/2 seconds on an unmodified semi-auto rifle. Who needs more fun than that? The target sat there mocking me the whole time. I found a few random holes in it. I could probably do that four or five times before my finger gets tired.
———————————
Governments can only print money — they can't make it worth anything.


IIRC this is why the Army dropped the 7.62 in favor of the 5.56, The Vietnamese regulars couldn't hang on to their rifles when they fired them in full automatic. And, now, in Afghanistan it is biting them because the 5.56 doesn't have the range of the Soviet 7.62.

And rapid firing of my .308 results in some pretty pathetic groupings. They all seem to track up and to the right.
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Re: My condolences
Post by Fireflair   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:22 pm

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A lot of people don't like Ringo's writing, but he is on the ball in a lot of ways. Spray and pray, as he puts it, is quite common in the Sandbox and other third world nations with under trained militia and army components.

I've fired the M16 on full auto, standing, kneeling and prone. Even prone, full auto it walks. And I had plenty of practice with it on full auto. The Mk 42 which we got in replacement for the M60 we used to carry in the submarine small arms locker has a nice bi-pod set up, and we rocked that on auto for fun times too. The groupings were crap, even when we had a solid firing base.

That was the fun part of being an RSO, was getting to play with the guns in ways that the rest of the guys didn't normally get to do. We teach single shot and burst for a lot of very good reasons.

Something else to consider about the small caliber usage, the rounds are cheaper. Unfortunately in today's modern world, as the police tend to find out more than the military, the bad guys are not only well armed, but well armored. You need the heavier rounds for their stopping power sometimes.

There's always a trade off when choosing the weapon and the ammunition to be used.
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Re: My condolences
Post by Imaginos1892   » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:08 am

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Fireflair wrote:A lot of people don't like Ringo's writing, but he is on the ball in a lot of ways. Spray and pray, as he puts it, is quite common in the Sandbox and other third world nations with under trained militia and army components.

Most of those that don't like John Ringo's writing just don't want to admit that's how the world is. They can't stand to have their cherished delusions trampled by brutal reality. They don't want to be shown how the 'poor, downtrodden victims of American oppression' actually behave, toward civilized folks and each other. They want their ignorance to remain inviolate, and hate anyone who threatens it.
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Re: My condolences
Post by Dilandu   » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:01 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:\
Most of those that don't like John Ringo's writing just don't want to admit that's how the world is. They can't stand to have their cherished delusions trampled by brutal reality. They don't want to be shown how the 'poor, downtrodden victims of American oppression' actually behave, toward civilized folks and each other. They want their ignorance to remain inviolate, and hate anyone who threatens it.


Influx of bitter reality; in most of cases, the American military involvement (or any other) just made things worse, especially for civilized folks.
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Re: My condolences
Post by Daryl   » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:05 am

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Not sure of the ethics of discussing one writer on the web page of an other. Ringo has the storyteller gene (as do Weber and Flint among others). You start a story and then wonder where hours have gone.
I find his politics and jingoism a bit tiring but the stories are excellent. I'm drawing a very long bow but years ago on his website I had a discussion about how a number of countries have excellent special forces that match (not exceed the Seals). Being Australian I pointed out how in the sandpit combined forces often sent our SAS in where things were most uncertain. A year or so later he brought out his series on a virus that turns people into mindless zombies, and the primary hero is Australian SAS. Probably coincidence, but made me happy.
Apart from his storytelling his attention to detail on weaponry is pleasing, as is another author's whom we all know.
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Re: My condolences
Post by Annachie   » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:01 am

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Take the gun talk to the gun thread.
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still not dead. :)
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