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Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"

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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by The E   » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:39 pm

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cthia wrote:This would not be a project aimed at the general public. The general public does not own the types of cars one would be willing to shell out these kinds of fees to indulge, or that are appropriate for an "Autobahn."


Somehow, this is absolutely the kind of statement I'd expect from someone who is willing and able to pay 60k USD per year for something as trivial as "being able to drive fast".

But then, "appropriate for an Autobahn" here means "has valid TÜV and is able to maintain speeds exceeding 60 kph"; I suppose that sort of thing is too close to "vehicles most people drive" for you?

Let the people directly pay for the construction costs. Build a 100 mile stretch at a time and allow the concept to pay for itself. Spearhead a huge campaign of commercials and advertising of the coming project and have it federally owned and the idea that the proceeds will go directly towards the National Debt and or to maintain or repair existing state highways. $1000 per hundred mile, exorbitant fees for crap and an automatic forfeiture of vehicles without DMV approval to use.


Or, and this is a radical concept, impose a road tax paid by everyone to improve infrastructure for everyone, not just rich people who want to get their money's worth from their 500 bhp go-fast machines.

(I get the feeling you don't want an Autobahn. You want a safe space where you can indulge in speed without considering others. Those are called race tracks.)
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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:21 pm

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cthia wrote:This would not be a project aimed at the general public. The general public does not own the types of cars one would be willing to shell out these kinds of fees to indulge, or that are appropriate for an "Autobahn."
The E wrote:Somehow, this is absolutely the kind of statement I'd expect from someone who is willing and able to pay 60k USD per year for something as trivial as "being able to drive fast".
Guilty as charged, with one minor nit. Not per year, per round trip.

I've a few friends who say they'd shell out 100k a round trip to "run my baby" coast to coast. And they travel coast to coast up to a dozen times a year. One is a billionaire who doesn't like flying, less than 40 years old and owns 5 million in exotic autos.
The E wrote:But then, "appropriate for an Autobahn" here means "has valid TÜV and is able to maintain speeds exceeding 60 kph"; I suppose that sort of thing is too close to "vehicles most people drive" for you?


That is there in Germany. American attitudes are different and the concept would have to be handled differently here. Because you are German doesn't make you an expert on Americans or the affluent. People can't take their money to heaven with them. Or to hell. What right do you have to tell anyone how to spend their money.

"Appropriate for the Autobahn," was meant in reference to this particular concept to fund an American "Autobahn." How many people do you know who can barely make their car payments can afford something like this?


Because American infrastructure is in such a great need of overhauling this would never wash unless something really radical is done to fund it. Americans are so vain that they donate money yearly just to get a stretch of highway named after them. American attitudes. It is what it is. The rich are spending a fortune on their cars and are willing to spend a fortune to indulge them. Are spending a fortune ferrying their machines to racetracks. The federal government can scratch that itch and relieve them of loot that they'd gladly give for the privilege.


Let the people directly pay for the construction costs. Build a 100 mile stretch at a time and allow the concept to pay for itself. Spearhead a huge campaign of commercials and advertising of the coming project and have it federally owned and the idea that the proceeds will go directly towards the National Debt and or to maintain or repair existing state highways. $1000 per hundred mile, exorbitant fees for crap and an automatic forfeiture of vehicles without DMV approval to use.
The E wrote:Or, and this is a radical concept, impose a road tax paid by everyone to improve infrastructure for everyone, not just rich people who want to get their money's worth from their 500 bhp go-fast machines.

How well is that working for us. I'm a civil engineer and my specialty are bridges. There are an appalling number of bridges in the U.S. that are downright dangerous. Long overdue an overhaul. It isn't going so well. Promises abound.

This idea is actually putting my money where my mouth is. A way to fund the project, cut into the National Debt, fund the upkeep and maintenance of existing roads and lessen the congestion on normal routes.

If the concept would work it'd be hilarious not to do it.

The E wrote:(I get the feeling you don't want an Autobahn. You want a safe space where you can indulge in speed without considering others. Those are called race tracks.)


And to serve a purpose by getting where I'm going. I live on the east coast but own a property in California.

Read my post again. Been there, done that. Still going to tracks every chance I get.

I am considering others. The National Debt impacts the entire U.S. Here is a way to attack the problem. The National Debt is a huge American problem. If the "rich" are willing to shell out these kinds of funds on a consistent leisurely basis, and believe me they are, then let them. I suppose you can think of a better way to raise money than "willing and eager" consistent outstanding funding?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by The E   » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:56 pm

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cthia wrote:I am considering others. The National Debt impacts the entire U.S. Here is a way to attack the problem. The National Debt is a huge American problem. If the "rich" are willing to shell out these kinds of funds on a consistent leisurely basis, and believe me they are, then let them. I suppose you can think of a better way to raise money than "willing and eager" consistent outstanding funding?


What others are you considering, exactly? Is it the regular people who might have a need to travel across state lines in their cars, or people like you, who bought toys for hundreds of thousands of dollars and are miffed that said toys are rather useless because of traffic regulations and the realities of travel in the United States?

The Autobahn is a critical piece of infrastructure. What you are talking about is a useless indulgence for the rich.

You want to go fast between your properties on both sides of the continent? Then take a plane. That's what they're there for. If you want to become a symbol of the uncaring rich 1% people who are only interested in their own pleasure? Then, by all means, try to scrounge up the trillions of dollars needed to build this fancy high speed road that only you and the other rich kids can use.

At the core of the matter is the simple fact that the Autobahn can only exist in a country that crosses a certain threshold of population density and economical power, combined with a certain tyrannical government and its willingness to appropriate the lands and manpower required to kick-start the project. The US doesn't have any of those things.

You say you're willing to pay 60k dollars per round trip, and you're implying that you're willing to pay that price several times per year, just for the privilege of going faster on the road.
Considering that 60k USD is slightly more than the yearly income of the average american household, all I can say is that such a blatant display of wealth makes me wish that someday, you people will discover what socialism is.
You wish to sell this pipedream as something that'll improve the infrastructure of the US and make everyone's lives better, in some small way. Well, I, for one, am not sold on it.

"Let the rich spend their money as they please," you say. To that, I say: the kind of concentrated wealth that allows this kind of decadence is a symptom of an uncured ill in society that, sooner or later, must be addressed. Hopefully sooner, since the longer we keep putting it off, the greater the chance that things will go unpleasantly (while I am not a fan of the superrich, I don't want them to be put against the wall and shot either).
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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:44 pm

cthia
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Your condescension and lack of respect has placed you on my ignore list.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by Daryl   » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:07 pm

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I do see your point. Regardless of ethics, having a lopsided society of a few very wealthy individuals in a sea of people who are just getting by is unstable. From what I've read, the US is an extreme example of this. The only developed or first world country without a federal welfare and health net for all citizens. If indeed there are individuals who are prepared to spend a family's annual income for a day's entertainment, the system is not well aligned.



:(
The E wrote:
cthia wrote:I am considering others. The National Debt impacts the entire U.S. Here is a way to attack the problem. The National Debt is a huge American problem. If the "rich" are willing to shell out these kinds of funds on a consistent leisurely basis, and believe me they are, then let them. I suppose you can think of a better way to raise money than "willing and eager" consistent outstanding funding?


What others are you considering, exactly? Is it the regular people who might have a need to travel across state lines in their cars, or people like you, who bought toys for hundreds of thousands of dollars and are miffed that said toys are rather useless because of traffic regulations and the realities of travel in the United States?

The Autobahn is a critical piece of infrastructure. What you are talking about is a useless indulgence for the rich.

You want to go fast between your properties on both sides of the continent? Then take a plane. That's what they're there for. If you want to become a symbol of the uncaring rich 1% people who are only interested in their own pleasure? Then, by all means, try to scrounge up the trillions of dollars needed to build this fancy high speed road that only you and the other rich kids can use.

At the core of the matter is the simple fact that the Autobahn can only exist in a country that crosses a certain threshold of population density and economical power, combined with a certain tyrannical government and its willingness to appropriate the lands and manpower required to kick-start the project. The US doesn't have any of those things.

You say you're willing to pay 60k dollars per round trip, and you're implying that you're willing to pay that price several times per year, just for the privilege of going faster on the road.
Considering that 60k USD is slightly more than the yearly income of the average american household, all I can say is that such a blatant display of wealth makes me wish that someday, you people will discover what socialism is.
You wish to sell this pipedream as something that'll improve the infrastructure of the US and make everyone's lives better, in some small way. Well, I, for one, am not sold on it.

"Let the rich spend their money as they please," you say. To that, I say: the kind of concentrated wealth that allows this kind of decadence is a symptom of an uncured ill in society that, sooner or later, must be addressed. Hopefully sooner, since the longer we keep putting it off, the greater the chance that things will go unpleasantly (while I am not a fan of the superrich, I don't want them to be put against the wall and shot either).
Top
Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:05 pm

cthia
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Posts: 8426
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

CAUTION
YIELD
STOP


BUMP IN ROAD AHEAD-IF IN THIS LANE USE DETOUR

Or whichever traffic sign you pay more attention to. I am not intending to strike up a conversation about politics, the politics of the rich and affluent, or provide a sounding board to bash the rich and how they spend their money. Please take those jealousies and inadequacies to the politics forum.

DETOUR
All traffic in this lane please :arrow: TURN RIGHT

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by Senior Chief   » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:47 am

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Accidents on the Autobahn are nearly always 100% fatal... for a good reason; speed kills.

Just think of all the tax payers dying, of course that means they would keep on voting from the grave in some voting districts of America.
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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by Daryl   » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:50 am

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Not starting a flaming war, or indeed jealous of those with lots of money.
Part of that is that I'm actually the richest person I know. While many would call me rich, I can't just go out and buy an Aston Martin (at least without liquidating some good investments), but I have enough to be secure for the rest of my life and have other riches in family and friends. My comment was meant to be dispassionate and simply to point out what many smarter economists have said that too big a wealth divide does not make for a healthy society, and reading from a distance it appears that US poor are really poor, not like Australians or Western Europeans. Our pensioners can live quite well, as long as they are sensible.

cthia wrote:
CAUTION
YIELD
STOP


BUMP IN ROAD AHEAD-IF IN THIS LANE USE DETOUR

Or whichever traffic sign you pay more attention to. I am not intending to strike up a conversation about politics, the politics of the rich and affluent, or provide a sounding board to bash the rich and how they spend their money. Please take those jealousies and inadequacies to the politics forum.

DETOUR
All traffic in this lane please :arrow: TURN RIGHT
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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by Annachie   » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:23 am

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Sorry Senior Chief, it's been prooved many times that speed doesn't kill.
It's the sudden stops.

Hate to say it Cthia, but your best option is to buy a house in somewhere like Müllenbach in Germany.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: Daydreaming of an American "Autobahn"
Post by munroburton   » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:47 am

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So wasteful. So inefficient.

Why not get behind high-speed trains? A coast-to-coast mag-lev would allow safe, comfortable and very quick travel. The video is of a 375mph train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpRqlehZ0X8

Not even the Veyron can get you that far past the 250mph barrier. Plus you have fuel range issues with cars, especially high-speed performance cars with smaller tanks to reduce weight. You'd need to make sure your route has gas stations every ~75 miles and would be making two or three fuel stops per hour. Tyres would probably need to be replaced multiple times too.

I get that cost isn't an objection. But essentially, there are better ways to travel faster than cars. If the desire is simply to drive cars fast, race tracks are the best compromise as they protect the wider public from hazards.
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