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The Cuban Missile Crisis

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The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by cthia   » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:49 pm

cthia
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What was Nikita Khrushchev thinking instigating the world's first nuclear confrontation? What made him think that he could place missiles in Cuba that could reach targets in the US, and reach them in 10 minutes?

What an almost hellish way this almost turned out to be to effect a fait accomplis.


This crisis enthralls me, now that I don't have to piss my pants.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by ksandgren   » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:51 pm

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The US had deployed nuclear missiles in Turkey as a direct provocation to the adjacent USSR. He was just seeking tit for tat. And had reason to believe that if a sovereign Turkey could hold US weapons, a sovereign Cuba could hold soviet weapons.
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by robert132   » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:52 pm

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ksandgren wrote:The US had deployed nuclear missiles in Turkey as a direct provocation to the adjacent USSR. He was just seeking tit for tat. And had reason to believe that if a sovereign Turkey could hold US weapons, a sovereign Cuba could hold soviet weapons.


There's that and also the thinking by the "old man" (Khrushchev) that he could buffalo the "young and inexperienced" Kennedy into backing down rather than risk nuclear war.

The USSR at the time had a powerful conventional army and air force facing Europe, but little else that Khrushchev thought he could rely on.

His idea of foreign policy was bluster and shoe-banging displays in the UN to counter the US military's global reach.

Remember, even though the USSR had the first ICBMs those missiles like the American missiles at the time were liquid fueled and not as dependable as they should have been, a distressing number exploded during testing. The Soviet Strategic Air Forces were built around the TU-95 turbo-prop bomber, long ranged but much slower than the jet fighters and interceptors they would be pitted against. Don't get me wrong, the Bear Bomber (TU-95 / TU-142) is a damned good plane even today, but as a penetrating bomber without the long range cruise missiles available today ... not so much. The other "Strategic Bombers" in the Soviet air forces for the most part didn't have the range even for one way missions against the continental US.

The Soviet Navy was never (and still is not) a global force and at that time was not capable of the kind of power projection that the USN and NATO navies were.

When Kennedy refused to back down and the Soviet merchant ships with more missiles and aircraft aboard reached Kennedy's blockade line Khrushchev did rather than risk war.

BTW, I don't think either side would have "won" if we and the Soviets had started shooting. But that's just me.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by Senior Chief   » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:46 pm

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All I remember at the time was that my grandfather gathered the entire family and camped out near the corner of Oregon, Nevada, & California during the month of Oct and early November to avoid any atomic bombs. It was cold but to a 12 year old I had loads of fun with all my cousins hiking and fishing.
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by cthia   » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:41 pm

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robert132 wrote:
ksandgren wrote:The US had deployed nuclear missiles in Turkey as a direct provocation to the adjacent USSR. He was just seeking tit for tat. And had reason to believe that if a sovereign Turkey could hold US weapons, a sovereign Cuba could hold soviet weapons.


There's that and also the thinking by the "old man" (Khrushchev) that he could buffalo the "young and inexperienced" Kennedy into backing down rather than risk nuclear war.

The USSR at the time had a powerful conventional army and air force facing Europe, but little else that Khrushchev thought he could rely on.

His idea of foreign policy was bluster and shoe-banging displays in the UN to counter the US military's global reach.

Remember, even though the USSR had the first ICBMs those missiles like the American missiles at the time were liquid fueled and not as dependable as they should have been, a distressing number exploded during testing. The Soviet Strategic Air Forces were built around the TU-95 turbo-prop bomber, long ranged but much slower than the jet fighters and interceptors they would be pitted against. Don't get me wrong, the Bear Bomber (TU-95 / TU-142) is a damned good plane even today, but as a penetrating bomber without the long range cruise missiles available today ... not so much. The other "Strategic Bombers" in the Soviet air forces for the most part didn't have the range even for one way missions against the continental US.

The Soviet Navy was never (and still is not) a global force and at that time was not capable of the kind of power projection that the USN and NATO navies were.

When Kennedy refused to back down and the Soviet merchant ships with more missiles and aircraft aboard reached Kennedy's blockade line Khrushchev did rather than risk war.

BTW, I don't think either side would have "won" if we and the Soviets had started shooting. But that's just me.

Robert McNamara, U.S. Secretary of Defense at the time pulled the words right out of my mouth. "Why in God's name, would the Soviets do such a thing? They must have known that we would react."

Sergei Kruschev, the son of Nikita Kruschev "You know, the whole crisis was really do to the fact that the USA did not want to recognize the Soviet Union as an equal player."

"Kruschev believes that putting missiles in Cuba will even the playing field."

Kruschev's Advisor Oleg Troyanovski, "He replied, what's so special about that. You Americans have surrounded our entire country with missiles. You have missiles in Turkey, in Italy and England. Why can't we do the same thing?

"45 American Jupiter missiles positioned in Turkey and Italy are close to the Soviet sphere of influence."

Anatoly Gribkov, the Soviet General stationed on Cuba, "Kruschev saw the American superiority in strategic nuclear weapons. The Americans, together with the French and English had 5,000 of them. And we had 300 nuclear warheads."

"The Soviet response is the SS-4 Intermediate range missile. It's part of the plan to obtain parity with American missile capacity. 36 of the SS-4's will make Cuba an impregnable fortress. A deterrent to any U.S. invasion. 36 missiles with nuclear warheads. Each missile as powerful and deadly as 66 of the bombs dropped on Hiroshima. They are a threat to America's very existence."

It was like playing chicken. Who will flinch first.

And just like chicken, it was a dangerous game.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by Daryl   » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:50 pm

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The world now would have been very different if it had gone the other way. I was young then but still old enough to be scared.
There is no doubt that the US started it, although both sides behaved badly, up until the resolution.
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by Senior Chief   » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:40 am

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Daryl wrote:The world now would have been very different if it had gone the other way. I was young then but still old enough to be scared.
There is no doubt that the US started it, although both sides behaved badly, up until the resolution.


I remember coming back to school from the camp out in Modoc County where my grandfather took everyone I was told by my friends at school that they practiced "duck and cover" under desks and tables. The family just slept/hid in lava tubes...
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by Henry Brown   » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:02 am

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Khrushchev fell from power in 1964, largely as a result of backing down in the Cuban Missile Crisis. The interesting thing is that he was kind of progressive for his time. I once saw an analysis that put forth the idea that Khrushchev wanted to introduce the same kind of ideas and reforms in the 1960s that Mikhail Gorbachev would put forth in the 1980s. Potentially, we could have had Glasnost in the 1960s instead of the 1980s. If this is true, the Cuban Missile Crisis basically extended the Cold War by 20 years.
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:48 pm

cthia
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robert132 wrote:
ksandgren wrote:The US had deployed nuclear missiles in Turkey as a direct provocation to the adjacent USSR. He was just seeking tit for tat. And had reason to believe that if a sovereign Turkey could hold US weapons, a sovereign Cuba could hold soviet weapons.


There's that and also the thinking by the "old man" (Khrushchev) that he could buffalo the "young and inexperienced" Kennedy into backing down rather than risk nuclear war.

The USSR at the time had a powerful conventional army and air force facing Europe, but little else that Khrushchev thought he could rely on.

His idea of foreign policy was bluster and shoe-banging displays in the UN to counter the US military's global reach.

Remember, even though the USSR had the first ICBMs those missiles like the American missiles at the time were liquid fueled and not as dependable as they should have been, a distressing number exploded during testing. The Soviet Strategic Air Forces were built around the TU-95 turbo-prop bomber, long ranged but much slower than the jet fighters and interceptors they would be pitted against. Don't get me wrong, the Bear Bomber (TU-95 / TU-142) is a damned good plane even today, but as a penetrating bomber without the long range cruise missiles available today ... not so much. The other "Strategic Bombers" in the Soviet air forces for the most part didn't have the range even for one way missions against the continental US.

The Soviet Navy was never (and still is not) a global force and at that time was not capable of the kind of power projection that the USN and NATO navies were.

When Kennedy refused to back down and the Soviet merchant ships with more missiles and aircraft aboard reached Kennedy's blockade line Khrushchev did rather than risk war.

BTW, I don't think either side would have "won" if we and the Soviets had started shooting. But that's just me.
Absolutely correct. Nuclear was is a no win scenario.

The only winning move is not to play.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The Cuban Missile Crisis
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:57 pm

cthia
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Posts: 8426
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Senior Chief wrote:All I remember at the time was that my grandfather gathered the entire family and camped out near the corner of Oregon, Nevada, & California during the month of Oct and early November to avoid any atomic bombs. It was cold but to a 12 year old I had loads of fun with all my cousins hiking and fishing.

I remember it clearly and was a snotty nosed kid myself. When I got home from school one day my mother wasn't herself. Had most of our favorite foods prepared. Homemade spaghetti, homemade banana pudding and homemade peach cobbler too???

But then, after dinner my sisters and I were informed that we were going to Canada to stay with an Aunt for awhile. And mom wouldn't give us any details. Then an older brother of mine got sick of me pestering him about it then told me that the Russians were going to blow up the planet. I still haven't completely cut off my urine stream. I had to make up almost a week of schoolwork! I enjoyed Canada though frightened every single day. My poor Auntie at the time. I would piss my pants if a balloon popped.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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