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Better Learning Methods?

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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by Tenshinai   » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:47 pm

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DDHv wrote:I second this
:!:
The Montesorri preschool training method is worth a look. Also, learning should be a lifelong project. Perhaps the most critical thing a parent can do is to teach the children to enjoy learning what they don't know: including testing to see where their current ideas are incorrect
;)


Having at least some experience with alternative teaching(and teaching since 3 of my cousins are teachers), i´m not really sure what´s best, yeah the Montesori schools tend to get a more even average along with kids much more "ok" with themselves, but their style doesn´t work for everyone either.

And some alternative styles end up being very comprehensive on the subjects they have covered, but covering fewer subjects.

OTOH, oldstyle strict teaching is pure murder for the kids that don´t handle it well.
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by DDHv   » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:39 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:Everything I've found out about Kiyosaki tells me he's a fraud. He claims to be some sort of financial and real-estate guru but in reality all his money came from selling get-rich-quick schemes to suckers. I don't think he's ever made an honest dollar.
-----------
Don't open that!! It's the original can of worms!

Sources, please. I don't want to suggest a fraud to anyone. OTOH, his points about the wealthy buying assets first, while the poor buy liabilities first; the three types of spending; and the four patterns of earning honestly; have resonated with what I know from other sources
:?:

Tenshenai wrote: snip

Having at least some experience with alternative teaching(and teaching since 3 of my cousins are teachers), i´m not really sure what´s best, yeah the Montesori schools tend to get a more even average along with kids much more "ok" with themselves, but their style doesn´t work for everyone either.

And some alternative styles end up being very comprehensive on the subjects they have covered, but covering fewer subjects.

OTOH, oldstyle strict teaching is pure murder for the kids that don´t handle it well.

FWIR, researchers have determined that there are around 20 different types of intelligence in humans, with none of us being good at all of them. Those who have a particular one think it is so easy that anyone can do it. It makes sense that teaching to a person's strengths would work best. I know a young man who did poorly in school, but in his spare time got mowers from the dump, fixed them up, and used them to earn before he was old enough for a regular position. A book, "8 Great Smarts" by Kathy Koch, PhD is worth reading. Also, IIRC, there was an Astounding (Or Analog) editorial about a man who was great at statistics, but had almost zero 3D visualization ability.
:|
Douglas Hvistendahl
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Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by Imaginos1892   » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:00 pm

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DDHv wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:Everything I've found out about Kiyosaki tells me he's a fraud. He claims to be some sort of financial and real-estate guru but in reality all his money came from selling get-rich-quick schemes to suckers. I don't think he's ever made an honest dollar.
-----------
Don't open that!! It's the original can of worms!

Sources, please. I don't want to suggest a fraud to anyone. OTOH, his points about the wealthy buying assets first, while the poor buy liabilities first; the three types of spending; and the four patterns of earning honestly; have resonated with what I know from other sources

Several years ago I followed a link from Motley Fool to an article, and a series of web pages. Kiyosaki sued John T. Reed for calling him a fraud, and lost. Reed spent a lot of time and effort digging up evidence for his defense, and it made fascinating, if disgusting, reading. Reed is still calling Kiyosaki a fraud, unopposed.

Kiyosaki used to be a big shot at Amway. The book 'Rich Dad Poor Dad' only became a best seller after it was put on Amway's required reading list. Every sucker in Amway had to buy it. That alone was enough to make it look like a huge best seller. Then ignorant people decided if it was a best seller, it must be good. If you don't know about Amway, and have a strong stomach, look it up.

The rich can afford to buy both assets and liabilities. A car is a liability, but try getting ahead without one. Yes, there are a few valid catch-phrases in there, but nothing useful. How do you buy assets? How do you decide which stock is an asset? [crickets]

Type 'kiyosaki fraud' into Google and you get over 480,000 results. Just type 'kiyosaki' and over half the first-page results are about fraud.
---------------
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by DDHv   » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:52 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
DDHv wrote:"="Imaginos1892"Everything I've found out about Kiyosaki tells me he's a fraud. He claims to be some sort of financial and real-estate guru but in reality all his money came from selling get-rich-quick schemes to suckers. I don't think he's ever made an honest dollar.
-----------
Don't open that!! It's the original can of worms!"
Sources, please. I don't want to suggest a fraud to anyone. OTOH, his points about the wealthy buying assets first, while the poor buy liabilities first; the three types of spending; and the four patterns of earning honestly; have resonated with what I know from other sources

Several years ago I followed a link from Motley Fool to an article, and a series of web pages. Kiyosaki sued John T. Reed for calling him a fraud, and lost. Reed spent a lot of time and effort digging up evidence for his defense, and it made fascinating, if disgusting, reading. Reed is still calling Kiyosaki a fraud, unopposed.

Kiyosaki used to be a big shot at Amway. The book 'Rich Dad Poor Dad' only became a best seller after it was put on Amway's required reading list. Every sucker in Amway had to buy it. That alone was enough to make it look like a huge best seller. Then ignorant people decided if it was a best seller, it must be good. If you don't know about Amway, and have a strong stomach, look it up.

The rich can afford to buy both assets and liabilities. A car is a liability, but try getting ahead without one. Yes, there are a few valid catch-phrases in there, but nothing useful. How do you buy assets? How do you decide which stock is an asset? [crickets]

Type 'kiyosaki fraud' into Google and you get over 480,000 results. Just type 'kiyosaki' and over half the first-page results are about fraud.
---------------
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

THANK YOU :!: The part I like best is the insistence on the need of continued learning, second that "get rich quick" can't work except by chance. Bad odds is also why I can't accept some theories. Formal education MUST be the start, not the end. His four quadrants of income has also been illuminating. Even a fraud can provide some useful understandings.

From: http://constitution.com/clash-of-the-titans/

I recently tutored a highs school student struggling with concepts I learned in grade school and Jr. High. Another senior I worked with a few years ago was a functional illiterate. He could barely read and could not have composed a meaningful page if his life depended upon it. Neither of these two young people are mentally deficient. They are simply poorly educated.

IIRC, Jerry Pournelle's wife works with illiterates. There was a comment that they typically came with pages of reasons why they could never learn to read, which she throws away and then teaches them to read. IMO the look-say method takes us back to the millennia when only a few could read because memorizing thousands of symbols was needed.

I think the Spanish Inquisition came partly from the Islamic history of Spain. They were used to forcing people to accept teachings without testing them, so they made their own version of that
:idea:
Last edited by DDHv on Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
Douglas Hvistendahl
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by Daryl   » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:23 pm

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We have six week courses for adult illiterates using adult learning principles like participation. Ten years of schooling failed, but the majority are functional readers after the six weeks.
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by DDHv   » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:19 am

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Daryl wrote:We have six week courses for adult illiterates using adult learning principles like participation. Ten years of schooling failed, but the majority are functional readers after the six weeks.

Please add how to locate these courses :!: I did a search on "six week online literacy," and didn't find it.
Many of us probably know at least one functional illiterate. IMO that is as much a handicap today as having a broken leg would be in a hunter/gatherer society. Maybe we can help someone heal this
:idea:
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by Tenshinai   » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:06 am

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Many of us probably know at least one functional illiterate.


Ehm, no? Don´t think i´ve ever met an adult that is illiterate. And very few above age 9.

Raise that to 12, maybe 13 or so if including people with severe mental handicaps.
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by Imaginos1892   » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:26 pm

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Daryl wrote:We have six week courses for adult illiterates using adult learning principles like participation. Ten years of schooling failed, but the majority are functional readers after the six weeks.

Did you see an ad?
Illiterate? Fill out this application for free help!
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by Daryl   » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:36 pm

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To be precise I should have said had not have, as my experience was 20 years ago in our Department of Education, Employment, and Training. A quick google from here shows that they still have similar courses, but unfortunately here.
Certainly most could read to a functional level at the end of a six week course, while some didn't. Group participation, peer group pressure and respect were big parts.
Of those who still couldn't read, some had medical or mental challenges, but a few just "knew" they couldn't and didn't try.
DDHv wrote:
Daryl wrote:We have six week courses for adult illiterates using adult learning principles like participation. Ten years of schooling failed, but the majority are functional readers after the six weeks.

Please add how to locate these courses :!: I did a search on "six week online literacy," and didn't find it.
Many of us probably know at least one functional illiterate. IMO that is as much a handicap today as having a broken leg would be in a hunter/gatherer society. Maybe we can help someone heal this
:idea:
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Re: Better Learning Methods?
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:18 am

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Tenshinai wrote:
Many of us probably know at least one functional illiterate.


Ehm, no? Don´t think i´ve ever met an adult that is illiterate. And very few above age 9.

Raise that to 12, maybe 13 or so if including people with severe mental handicaps.


Back in my Louisiana youth, I was amazed by the people who were functional illiterates. Come into my grandfather's store, they would, with a checkbook of signed checks for cashiers to fill out for them. I got sent out as a driver's helper because the driver could not read, the delivery foreman went over the delivery tickets until he memorized the route, I was the backup.

My ex was (maybe still is)involved with the adult literacy program. She learned quite a lot about dyslexia and the different learning disabilities, trying to help one lady.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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