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Favorite ships

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Re: Favorite ships
Post by MAD-4A   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:51 am

MAD-4A
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Weird Harold wrote:Why would you hamstring your "fighter" with a POS like the AIM-4?
So is the AIM-9A, by our current standards.
Weird Harold wrote:There is a very good reason that the AIM-4 is no longer in service.
Yes, the AIM-9 got the contract.
The only thing POS about the AIM-4 is that it didn't receive the upgrades the AIM-9 had. It has some other advantages, primarily length (6.6' Vs 10'), it's much shorter than the AIM-9 and takes up less bay length. It's also faster and very similar to the AGM-65 Maverick. so any unit that can operate the Maverick can be adapted to use an IR updated Falcon with no need to alter the launch rail system.
Dilandu wrote:Basically, the AIM-4 wasn't bad; just the AIM-9 was perfect.
Not really, the Israeli nickname for the early AIM-9 mods was the Hebrew word for "Bomb", the engine was highly unreliable (the reason US pilots in VN took to ripple firing 2 missiles at a target - so maybe one would work right). Proper upgrades to the AIM-4, with the addition of modern IR directors, would bring it up to modern standards and provide a missile that could easily be fitted to any ground attract aircraft (including helicopters) that currently use the AGM-65 Maverick without the need for a special long rail being attached to carry it.
(though this is getting off-topic of ships)
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:03 pm

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MAD-4A wrote:The only thing POS about the AIM-4 ...


You clearly never worked on the AIM-4 fire-control system or the missiles. I have. They were unreliable POS that often couldn't even be jettisoned because of the Idiot design that required a functional rocket motor and fire signal to jettison.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:08 pm

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MAD-4A wrote: Proper upgrades to the AIM-4, with the addition of modern IR directors, would bring it up to modern standards and provide a missile that could easily be fitted to any ground attract aircraft (including helicopters) that currently use the AGM-65 Maverick without the need for a special long rail being attached to carry it.
(though this is getting off-topic of ships)


With all respect, but AIM-4 was VERY OLD missile by the times of Vietnam, initially considered as bomber's tail-defense weaponry. That's why she was so compact.

The problem was, that she actually could not be used on any aircraft without specialized fire-control system. That was her main disandvangage in comparsion with AIM-9. While AIM-9 could be quickly placed on basically everything - you only need suitable pylons and ONE small control box installed in cabin, to use "Sidewinders" - AIM-4 reqired to be rigged into the fire control system of the plane.

that currently use the AGM-65 Maverick without the need for a special long rail being attached to carry it.


Er, this is right only for SARH Falcons. The IR Falcons (the only ones which could be used in fighter combat) could not be carried internally. They need to see the target with their IR seekers to lock on. One of the problems was exactly that IR Falcons weren't suited for external transportation on F-4, and could be easily damaged.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:18 pm

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Dilandu wrote:One of the problems was exactly that IR Falcons weren't suited for external transportation on F-4, and could be easily damaged.


The major problem with the Falcon on F-4s was the launcher. It used precise time delays and digital logic but implemented the functions with relays. :roll: A solid state digital launcher would have relieved a lot of the launch reliability, but the missile simply wasn't up to late-60s/early-70s requirements. It was built as a BVR intercept missile and simply couldn't cope with a visual-range dog-fight environment.

(that is also the reason for much of the AIM-7's problems in Vietnam -- political interference.)
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:48 pm

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Dilandu wrote:I think, that M-class should be divided.
feel free to sub-dived categories if you like (for example "D" - favorite Battleship, Cruiser, 14" gun armed ship etc...)
I listed my favorite D as USS Wyoming, I was thinking US ships at the time. She is my favorite Battleship of the era (Sorry Texas, she just has more turrets). but I have to say my overall favorite ship, and favorite BC of that era was SMS Seydlitz. Yea she only had 28cm guns but any ship that can take 21 heavy gun hits and a 21" torpedo and still make it back home (more or less) deserves mention.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:33 pm

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I;m not sure what classification she is, but this was my favorite ship up to 1978 -- when I woke up and said "never again" and meant it for a change. :shock:

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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Daryl   » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:11 pm

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Yes. I'm sorry I forgot her. Have seen her at Greenwich a couple of times, pre and post fire restoration. Made a scale balsa model the hard way when 14. Steve Stirling has her commanded by Prince William in the Emberverse series.
Most beautiful ship ever.
Weird Harold wrote:I;m not sure what classification she is, but this was my favorite ship up to 1978 -- when I woke up and said "never again" and meant it for a change. :shock:

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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:26 pm

Weird Harold
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Daryl wrote:Yes. I'm sorry I forgot her. Have seen her at Greenwich a couple of times, pre and post fire restoration. Made a scale balsa model the hard way when 14. Steve Stirling has her commanded by Prince William in the Emberverse series.
Most beautiful ship ever.
Weird Harold wrote:I;m not sure what classification she is, but this was my favorite ship up to 1978 -- when I woke up and said "never again" and meant it for a change. :shock:

Image


You missed the joke: I was more interested in the one on the bottle than the one at the wharf. :roll:
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by Daryl   » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:41 am

Daryl
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Didn't miss it. I too have had Scottish flu.

Weird Harold wrote:I;m not sure what classification she is, but this was my favorite ship up to 1978 -- when I woke up and said "never again" and meant it for a change. :shock:

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[/quote]

You missed the joke: I was more interested in the one on the bottle than the one at the wharf. :roll:[/quote]
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Re: Favorite ships
Post by MAD-4A   » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:49 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:I;m not sure what classification she is, but this was my favorite ship up to 1978
We'll give her an honorary classification of "C" - Civilian.
MAD-4A wrote:overall favorite ship, and favorite BC of that era was SMS Seydlitz.
Chech these out http://dreadnoughtproject.org/models/ships/SMS_Seydlitz/renders/SeydlitzGeneral.jpg

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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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