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Solar and the electric car

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Solar and the electric car
Post by Lord Skimper   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:16 am

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Thinking about the Idea of various electric car companies that one could use the car as a temporary power source I think i finally get it. Battery tech is the most expensive and problematic part of the solar array power system. But if you use your cars' batteries, in an electric car or MDI generator car, suddenly all you need is your car to power your house. Having a recharged car when you get home and having a recharged car when you go to work in the morning the only stumbling block. having a solar powered house during the day when your car is not home isn't a problem... Still Methinks an MDI generator and an improved BMW i3 MDI in place of gasoline generator would work great. Solar could recharge the Air tank and refuel the car when it is back home. Still MDI would need to recharge the batteries before driving to work and recharge at work parked all day, that can be worked out.

I also wonder why all electric cars don't have solar roof panels and even more so why non solar roof shingles or tiles are still the norm, on houses. These should be restricted and replaced with solar shingles and or tiles. (not the big blocky glass solar panels, but shingles and tiles) We live in such a backward world.
Last edited by Lord Skimper on Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solar and the electric car
Post by zyffyr   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:01 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:
I also wonder why all electric cars don't have solar roof panels and even more so why non solar roof shingles or tiles are still the norm. These should be restricted and replaced with solar shingles and or tiles. (not the big blocky glass solar panels, but shingles and tiles) We live in such a backward world.


1)Money - it will cost more, which can be a problem in some cases.

2)Aesthetics - they don't really look as good, which matters to many people.

3)Cultural Inertia - it isn't what we do now, and that alone is enough to dissuade many people.
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Re: Solar and the electric car
Post by The E   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:37 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:I also wonder why all electric cars don't have solar roof panels and even more so why non solar roof shingles or tiles are still the norm. These should be restricted and replaced with solar shingles and or tiles. (not the big blocky glass solar panels, but shingles and tiles) We live in such a backward world.


Solar is only successful if it is heavily subsidized, which is something you americans are awfully antsy about. And when it comes to cars, the square meter or three of solar panel you can fit on a normal chassis generally do not produce enough energy to be worthwhile.
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Re: Solar and the electric car
Post by aairfccha   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:47 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:But if you use your cars' batteries, in an electric car or MDI generator car, suddenly all you need is your car to power your house. [...] having a solar powered house during the day when your car is not home isn't a problem...


And if you are away at night, your fridge doesn't run.

Lord Skimper wrote:I also wonder why all electric cars don't have solar roof panels


The energy harvest potential per area is too low for meaningful recharge for propulsion unless you build a hyper light vehicle where you would't like the extra weight. Solar cars actually exist but they are largely one-offs.
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Re: Solar and the electric car
Post by Odium   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:55 pm

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Lord Skimper wrote:
I also wonder why all electric cars don't have solar roof panels and even more so why non solar roof shingles or tiles are still the norm. These should be restricted and replaced with solar shingles and or tiles. (not the big blocky glass solar panels, but shingles and tiles) We live in such a backward world.


Cost. It cost me $3500 canadian for shingles alone to re do my my shingles. Id imagine solar costs at least twice as much and I highly doubt would last the 25-35 years my ashphault shingles are good for. And then I need an electrician to help install raising that price. Add in the fact that my roof has 6-20" of snow on it for 4-5 months of the year, and paying at least twice as much for my roof with likely less than half the lifespan, and no power generation for half the year, and Id never consider it
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Re: Solar and the electric car
Post by Lord Skimper   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:10 pm

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Odium wrote:
Lord Skimper wrote:
I also wonder why all electric cars don't have solar roof panels and even more so why non solar roof shingles or tiles are still the norm. These should be restricted and replaced with solar shingles and or tiles. (not the big blocky glass solar panels, but shingles and tiles) We live in such a backward world.


Cost. It cost me $3500 canadian for shingles alone to re do my my shingles. Id imagine solar costs at least twice as much and I highly doubt would last the 25-35 years my asphalt shingles are good for. And then I need an electrician to help install raising that price. Add in the fact that my roof has 6-20" of snow on it for 4-5 months of the year, and paying at least twice as much for my roof with likely less than half the lifespan, and no power generation for half the year, and Id never consider it



Cost isn't much more, about $4500 Canadian. For solar shingles. They last 40+ years and the new ones have a non stick coating that repels water and snow and dirt etc.... As for having them wired in, saves you money in the form of electricity.
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Re: Solar and the electric car
Post by Lord Skimper   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:16 pm

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This is what they look like, the first are panels the second are shingles, both solar powered.

http://www.pvtech.ca/wp/wp-content/uplo ... ingles.jpg
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Re: Solar and the electric car
Post by DDHv   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:53 pm

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These posts have about summed it up. If you are going to have an electric car anyway, solar PV will pay for itself faster.

The E wrote:Solar is only successful if it is heavily subsidized, which is something you americans are awfully antsy about. And when it comes to cars, the square meter or three of solar panel you can fit on a normal chassis generally do not produce enough energy to be worthwhile.


For PV, this is correct in most, but not all, instances. Prices are dropping, and given the small market penetration, it can be thought of as a large beta test. The details matter, as always.


Solar heat pays better than solar electricity in almost all cases. A solar PVT (photovoltaic - thermal) will pay off faster than PV if you can use or store all the heat.

At present, if you are going to build new anyway, a passive solar building can be built at about 5>10% off standard new building cost of like quality. Except near Seattle, WA and parts of New England, where there is too much winter cloudiness, it can be comfortable anywhere in the continental US, with local climate variations in design.

For seasonal heat storage, we put PEX 1/2" tubes under the dirt floor basement as deep as possible, soldered finned tubes from scrap baseboard heaters into a 6' x 3' heat exchanger in the attic, added a half barrel with a utility pump for circulation and a 20" fan to blow air through it, both being connected to the thermostat that turns on the fans that circulate summer air through the basement. A valve in the basement allows fall drainage. Today, 3:40PM, the attic is 91 degF and the returning water is 74 degF. Water circulation is several gallons per minute, exact amount not known. We are adding "wing" insulation to reduce ground heat losses in the little spare time available. By itself this heat storage won't keep the house comfortable. It does reduce the heat bill. One cold winter week we turned off the other heats to see how long it would take for the house to reach freezing. Since this is an old house, three days isn't bad :!: :D

PVT is being looked at, but our south roof will need work before installation, and that can be DYI first. Provided, of course, that we live long enough. Also, prices are dropping :!: ;)
The primary purpose of the PVT would be to make sure the heating systems keep working if the grid goes down.
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Solar Shingles? ...
Post by HB of CJ   » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:28 pm

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PV singles need to be faced nearly directly into the sun to produce meaningful current. Non facing sides would produce practically nothing.

Direct winter sunlight would be ideal. The problem also with PV shingles is that in the summer most of the roof SHOULD be in deep shade.

Factor in all the reductions and 100% complete shingles roofs with PV panels is not a good deal for dwellings. But ... for purpose built commerical ...

It might be very possible to design roof pitches and orientations that exploit PV shingles quite well. But for homes, forget it. Not doable YET.
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Re: Solar and the electric car
Post by Odium   » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:38 pm

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Lord Skimper wrote:
Cost isn't much more, about $4500 Canadian. For solar shingles. They last 40+ years and the new ones have a non stick coating that repels water and snow and dirt etc.... As for having them wired in, saves you money in the form of electricity.


I'm not sure where you are getting the 4500 from. While I didn't spend much time looking, the costs I found were in the $40,000+ range for an average house, at 3000 sq ft I'm a bit over average roof size. The various quotes I got for redoing my asphalt shingles ranged from 6-10,000. Given that my roof has 6-20" of snow on it from mid October to mid April on average, and we only get 7-8 hours of daylight in the winter, I think it's safe to assume it would provide a negligible amount of power for 5 months of the year. Now in the summer we get 16-18 hrs of daylight, but that's when I use the least power. If the system lowers my power consumption to zero 7 months of the year, Id save around $22,500 over 25 years. But it would cost me over $32000 more to put it on than a conventional roof. Might make sense elsewhere, but useless waste of money up here
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