Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 1 guest

If the econmy fails

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: If the econmy fails
Post by Lord Skimper   » Wed May 24, 2017 8:15 am

Lord Skimper
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Calgary, Nova, Gryphon.

If you can have a real gun, a black powder pistol is an ideal survival gun. Easy to carry or store bullets and reloading, just carry your black powder horn separately. 6 shots and cheap. Easy to make black powder.
________________________________________
Just don't ask what is in the protein bars.
Top
Re: If the econmy fails
Post by DDHv   » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:21 am

DDHv
Captain of the List

Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:59 pm

We just took delivery on a Liberator rocket stove. This is for about 30kBTU/hour extra heat, and emergency backup.

Advantages: It is UL approved for indoor use. Once it heats up the efficiency is high with very low pollution. There is no need for electricity whatever. A cooking surface is built in. Fuels are wood, wood pellets, corn kernels or some other bio fuels, and it can be configured for outdoor air supply. The draft is produced internally, so exhaust can be through a wall instead of a vertical chimney. The exhaust is clean, allowing heating a mass for higher efficiency and comfort if ash collection arrangements are made. When the mass is 80 degF, it won't matter much if the room is cool. Using the pellet/corn kernel bin gives a burn time of about 10 hours. The price is reasonable. It can pay for itself by burning discarded wood, etc. and will also be available for emergency heating and cooking.

Disadvantages: the only control over heat rate is changing the fuel - (an oak 4x4 burns slower than pine twigs). It is not large enough to heat our whole house. Manual fuel handling is needed. The fuel entry is only 5"x5" which prevents using large wood chunks. The heating is local, so a fan must be added for duct distribution. If a heat storage mass is used, it must be built in place.

Rocket stoves are worth researching by anyone who considers bio fuel usage. The basic research was done in the 80s. At present most rocket stoves are locally built in many variations - the Liberator is mass produced.

From: Wikipedia
In field tests in India, rocket stoves used 18 to 35 per cent less fuel compared to the traditional stoves and reduced fuel used 39-47 per cent compared to the three-stone fire, as well as a large reduction in emissions.



The barbell investing pattern recognizes the tendency for economies to spend much time at highs or lows, with intermediate stages in between. Gardening and bio fuel usage are investments for the low periods which pay off during the high periods for those willing to work.

I wonder if real life Dolists could be gotten off the Dole
:?: :!:
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
Top
Re: If the econmy fails
Post by Daryl   » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:11 am

Daryl
Admiral

Posts: 2257
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

Interesting two divergent points.
We have a wood heater that was bought 20 years ago and the type is still popular now. Basically a box, firebrick lined on the bottom, large glass door, with a flue that exits after the fumes have passed by a heavy steel plate. Very efficient with a built in fan. Only problem I can see is that it has to be let die down every few days to shovel the ash out. Can take wood up to about 15 X 5 X 10 inches.
The second question about dolists has a complex answer. Years ago I worked both in the field and in our national employment HQ looking at ways to get long term welfare people back to work. Lots of techniques used and many (most) did respond, but there are in every society some oxygen thieves. They knew every trick, switching to training, to education, to sickness benefits (using corrupt doctors), in a couple of extreme cases they simply threw a brick through a bank window and waited. Non violent crime meant a year at a prison farm, by which time their government tormenter had moved on.
Top
Re: If the econmy fails
Post by Lord Skimper   » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:18 pm

Lord Skimper
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Calgary, Nova, Gryphon.

If you run to the hills, you have to have somewhere to go. If you have somewhere to go, go early. You don't want someone else to beat you to your prepared site. Personally I would look at investing in a RV Portable somewhere to go anywhere you like. You can get used fairly good ones quite cheap. Never pay msrp, brand new dealers sell for 30+% off msrp.
________________________________________
Just don't ask what is in the protein bars.
Top
Re: If the econmy fails
Post by DDHv   » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:08 pm

DDHv
Captain of the List

Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:59 pm

[quote=Lord Skimper]If you can have a real gun, a black powder pistol is an ideal survival gun. Easy to carry or store bullets and reloading, just carry your black powder horn separately. 6 shots and cheap. Easy to make black powder.[/quote]
Air rifles of at least the capability of 22's exist also. The ammunition is very inexpensive.

[quote= Daryl]Years ago I worked both in the field and in our national employment HQ looking at ways to get long term welfare people back to work. Lots of techniques used and many (most) did respond, but there are in every society some oxygen thieves.[/quote]

Apropos from: The quest for cosmic justice, by Thomas Sowell

"The poor," who are often defined as the bottom 20 percent of the income distribution, are as transient in that role as the rich. Only 3 percent of the American population remained in the bottom 20 percent for as long as eight years.
snip
The genuinely rich and the genuinely poor, put together, do not add up to even 10 percent of the American population


Worth reading. Most people do better as they get older
:|
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
Top
Re: If the econmy fails
Post by DDHv   » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:31 pm

DDHv
Captain of the List

Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:59 pm

Rocket Stove: My current experience is very limited, but in addition to burning the smoke, creosote and soot that most wood stoves have some problem with: Properly installed, it is more efficient at getting the heat into the room.

Comparing with our corn/pellet stove: Some repairs to the c/p were needed over the years. It still paid for itself. It requires electricity to function: a several day electricity knockout would cause a problem.

None of the things needing repair exist on the rocket stove. The Liberator brand can burn pellets or corn kernels. It needs no electricity and has a cooking surface, which makes it ideal for an emergency stove. It can pay for itself on fuel cost savings. It also cost less (including shipping) than the c/p stove. For some reason, the factory is busy ;)

The problems of acquiring fuel and removing ashes remain, although the very high efficiency reduces the amounts.
Douglas Hvistendahl
Retired technical nerd

Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
Top

Return to Free-Range Topics...