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Under ground military bases

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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by HB of CJ   » Sat May 14, 2016 11:34 pm

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Tenshinai: You got me a good one and thank you. You trapped me into the perfect corner of legal non disclosure. Lots of things simply can not be discussed. Can not.

I CAN discuss the 36 inch thick Interstate Five 2 mile straight sections between Bakersfield California and Grants Pass Oregon. Public record. Endless highway capping?

Just Goggle "Maps" and look yourself. Also look for the straight sections next to the major rivers. Rivers needed to cool hundreds of people deep underground for years?

All public domain. Then if you want to go a little bit more local and check out the regional Oregon full time year round rivers that border straight highways sections.

Let us lighten this up. Can ANYBODY PLEASE tell me the importance between "Oven Tempered" vs. "Quilted Strength" regarding the necessary aluminum foil?

We all know alumoinumumium foil protects the feeble brain from government spy beams. Also maybe Tree Cats but not sure. Do we know WHY? Special Al qualities.

Vitally important. It might protect also from Zombies and all known space aliens but also not too sure about it. Deep government bunkers might exist? Yikes. :)
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by Daryl   » Sun May 15, 2016 7:08 am

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To me the whole concept of deep underground military bases for long term VIP storage is not all that sensible.
Many years ago I read some musings from Robert Heinlein (all hail) where he described his experiences flying in light aircraft at reasonably low altitude. As he said there was a lot of nothing between places, and I've done the same often since.
Barring extreme nuclear winter or so much radiation that it sterilises the planet I would much rather be in a well stocked and defended small remote surface site than be a rat in a hole with one entrance (that took so much to construct that anyone with satellites would know about anyway).
Even the biggest nukes only have a blast radius of some dozen miles or so, and will be targeted at high value sites. This leaves a lot of untouched wilderness even if all are used.
My 8 acre site is well defended and stocked, however too close to a 100k city if all goes totally to pot. So me, family, the well stocked and defended stuff will decamp to my sister's station (ranch), which is remote and easily missed. It is at **********, damn my keyboard is playing up.
Underground military bases are needed to continue fighting a war, not so good for long term survival.
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by Tenshinai   » Sun May 15, 2016 10:38 am

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Daryl wrote:...
Underground military bases are needed to continue fighting a war, not so good for long term survival.


Exactly.

The whole "VIP-shelter" thing is about denying an enemy the ability to headshot the leadership of a nation.
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun May 15, 2016 11:56 am

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Tenshinai wrote:
HB of CJ wrote:...

Like in Sweden, lots of our Interstate highway systems from the air from light private aircraft seem to have very straight and level two, (2) mile long sections that seem slightly out of place.
...


Yes, i know. You folks copied that from us, but you never really went through with it seriously, AFAIK, USA never had anything beyond trial units for mobile/improvised airbases of that kind.

Your aircraft were found to be extremely unsuitable for it. Needed too good and too long runways, and your ability to service the aircrafts away from base was minimal.

Swedish aircraft have had STOL ability, gear and air intakes to handle nonperfect runways ever since SAAB-29 from the 50s, even if it wasn´t until the SAAB-37 that it was taken really far. Despite being heavier than the F-16, it could take land on a third as long runway, or less.

And on the ground, 1 techie and 2-6 conscripts can service SAAB-37(or -39) much faster than 12 techies and an engineer can service an F-18.

I´ve always found that weird, because it´s not a matter of quality or even pricetag, but pure choice.


I once was driving down an interstate and heard a guy on my radio say that we should have one car length for every 10 mph between us and the car ahead to give us enough room to stop safety... after some reflection I thought that made sense, so I slowed down to open the space... within a few minutes, eight cars slid into the space.

If there was ever a major disaster, our interstates would become parking lots within hours and only VTOL aircraft would stand much of a chance to be of much use.

So... if the VIPs wanted to get into some bunker under a highway, they would likely have all the people stranded in the cars, trucks and buses watch them land and scurry to the "secret door"... how long do you think it would take for a mob to fire bomb their way in??

In another chat room, we have been discussing that fiction must be plausible... that the best fiction (or lie) tells the truth, carefully edited...

If VIPs and "top military brains" are building any bunkers with tax dollars in an attempt to save themselves while the 99% rot on their door step... I think that they will not be as smart as they think they are...

One unexpected turn of events will undo all their plans

At least I hope it will

We could/should have built space settlements by now if the hogs at the tax trough were less greedy.

Hey... I have been wrong before
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by HB of CJ   » Sun May 15, 2016 4:25 pm

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Easy to plug up and completely stop traffic on major USA interstates. Controlled access. Limited on and off ramps. Consider the available old tech deployable vertically acting super anti vehicle barriers.

Easier to stop all traffic on smaller highways. Next time you drive around, look around for funny little things that seem out of place. Chain link fences. Road repairs where not needed. Possible built in barriers.

Super soft road shoulders. Extra wide, straight and level sections of roadway. Do some Goggle map studies. Use your imagination. Look for signs of stuff dedicated to stopping road AND foot traffic for miles each way.

All of this can be discussed. Public domain. Consider it like a treasure hunt. The results can be quite revealing and somewhat sobering indeed. Lots of stuff hidden in plain sight if one knows what to look for. Sweden as an example?

There was no such thing as nuclear winter. Disinformation. Popular myth. About equal to Big Foot animals in the USA NW forests. Also about the same as Pole Shift. Also now irrelevant. Salt Treaties. But ... one big volcano?

Oh yeah. The odds of some world class volcano erupting and putting enough ash into the very high atmosphere can and will happen. Nobody know when. Might not happen for hundreds of years. Volcanic winter? Oh yeah.

Consider the year without a summer. 1815-16. One small eruption compared to what our government is planning to protect against. Five years of volcanic winter? Summertime temps well below zero? VIPs and military are planning for this.
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun May 15, 2016 8:26 pm

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HB of CJ wrote:Tenshinai: You got me a good one and thank you. You trapped me into the perfect corner of legal non disclosure. Lots of things simply can not be discussed. Can not.

I CAN discuss the 36 inch thick Interstate Five 2 mile straight sections between Bakersfield California and Grants Pass Oregon. Public record. Endless highway capping?

Just Goggle "Maps" and look yourself. Also look for the straight sections next to the major rivers. Rivers needed to cool hundreds of people deep underground for years?

All public domain. Then if you want to go a little bit more local and check out the regional Oregon full time year round rivers that border straight highways sections.

Let us lighten this up. Can ANYBODY PLEASE tell me the importance between "Oven Tempered" vs. "Quilted Strength" regarding the necessary aluminum foil?

We all know alumoinumumium foil protects the feeble brain from government spy beams. Also maybe Tree Cats but not sure. Do we know WHY? Special Al qualities.

Vitally important. It might protect also from Zombies and all known space aliens but also not too sure about it. Deep government bunkers might exist? Yikes. :)


It only takes one leak...
As Richard Nixon would know...
to knock the wheels off...
of course, he still got his pension and fringe benefits for life
much like John Andrew Boehner or Ted Stevens whose "Bridge to Nowhere" would have connected Ketchikan, Alaska, to an island with just 50 residents at a cost of nearly $400 million. The proposal became a symbol of the waste associated with earmarks, which are items inserted into bills, often at the last minute. may actually be an example of how such projects might be hidden in plane sight <grin> Just tried to look that island up on Google Earth and (there is something funky going on with the photo)
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by Tenshinai   » Wed May 18, 2016 2:05 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:I once was driving down an interstate and heard a guy on my radio say that we should have one car length for every 10 mph between us and the car ahead to give us enough room to stop safety... after some reflection I thought that made sense, so I slowed down to open the space... within a few minutes, eight cars slid into the space.


:mrgreen:

Yeah, it´s sad how few really knows how to drive safely.

C. O. Thompson wrote:If there was ever a major disaster, our interstates would become parking lots within hours and only VTOL aircraft would stand much of a chance to be of much use.


That´s what you have bulldozers for.

And a number of countries did look at VTOL jets all the way from the 50s to the 70s or even 80s. Kinda sad that the only ones going into service was the brilliant but lackluster Harrier(it was simply never designed to be what it eventually became, the Harrier II improved on matters but a lot of the drawbacks of the original design were still there) and the even more limited Yak-38(although the later Yak-141 could have become much more interesting if it had gone onwards into service).

But last year or so i accidentally started looking at experimental VTOL projects, and i was amazed at just how many there had been.
Sweden had one but eventually when it was proven that STOL for high performance jets was NOT "nearly impossible", we took that route instead, Germany had at least 4 designs under development, ranging all the way from crazy to potentially brilliant, the French, USA etc etc, there was a whole bunch of them.

C. O. Thompson wrote:So... if the VIPs wanted to get into some bunker under a highway, they would likely have all the people stranded in the cars, trucks and buses watch them land and scurry to the "secret door"... how long do you think it would take for a mob to fire bomb their way in??


Which is why that use was also mostly dropped.

C. O. Thompson wrote:In another chat room, we have been discussing that fiction must be plausible... that the best fiction (or lie) tells the truth, carefully edited...


Quite. Most of the time, reality is far more weird than fiction.

"Reality always has the advantage over fiction, because fiction has to make sense."
One of many variations on a quote.

C. O. Thompson wrote:If VIPs and "top military brains" are building any bunkers with tax dollars in an attempt to save themselves while the 99% rot on their door step... I think that they will not be as smart as they think they are...

One unexpected turn of events will undo all their plans


Planning never survives contact with reality.
Don´t need no enemy to smash planning into pieces, random chance works perfectly fine.

C. O. Thompson wrote:We could/should have built space settlements by now if the hogs at the tax trough were less greedy.


Yeah, more likely, we would just have had lower taxes, because the sad part is that those kinds of projects don´t have tangible enough rewards or are simply "too big" for most people AND politicians to want to "waste" money on them, and the "we hate taxes" crew is far more influential.

It took national pride getting involved during the cold war to get the massive investments needed. What the bean counters denying money for projects later doesn´t accept is just how much side benefits those investments generated.

And it´s really ridiculous how the Saturn-V rockets were just thrown on the scrapheap and discarded in such a permanent way, and what are we using in the space programs today? Oh yeah, rocketry developed by the Soviet side of the space race at the same time.

Because most things built later have simply lacked the investments needed to develop something better.

It´s like the stupidity with the space shuttles, they were taken into service because they were supposed to be a cheaper, easier and more reliable way of getting into orbit(mostly discarding the ability to get beyond orbit), and once everyone admitted that it actually became the opposite in every way, the tools and knowhow to make the Saturn-Vs was already gone.

And since the Soviet "superheavy lifter" rocket partly failed and partly lost focus(Korolev´s death combined with shifts in what the targets of the space program was), we were left completely without a useful BIG rocket. :(
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by Tenshinai   » Wed May 18, 2016 2:25 pm

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HB of CJ wrote:Tenshinai: You got me a good one and thank you.


Wasn´t trying and don´t care to. That´s just underhanded and dishonest debating society crap.

HB of CJ wrote:Next time you drive around, look around for funny little things that seem out of place. Chain link fences. Road repairs where not needed. Possible built in barriers.

Super soft road shoulders. Extra wide, straight and level sections of roadway. Do some Goggle map studies. Use your imagination. Look for signs of stuff dedicated to stopping road AND foot traffic for miles each way.


Don´t put TOO MUCH imagination into it though.

Because the truth is that MOST of those "funny little things" have some very simple and very obvious explanations. IF you know about it.

With my sister in law working with exactly those kind of things, i have gained a healthy respect for the kind of weird roadworks, longterm planning, accident prevention etc etc that they do.

HB of CJ wrote:All of this can be discussed. Public domain. Consider it like a treasure hunt. The results can be quite revealing and somewhat sobering indeed. Lots of stuff hidden in plain sight if one knows what to look for. Sweden as an example?


The thing about the "secret places" is that you WONT spot any "funny little things" where those really are.

Most stuff that looks weird are simply things there for a reason you or i haven´t found or figured out, because the secret stuff is camouflaged or just completely invisible.

HB of CJ wrote:There was no such thing as nuclear winter. Disinformation. Popular myth.


:roll:

And here we go again...

No, it´s completely for real. Unfortunately.
It depends on how much nukes are used, how and where.

The simplest variant is based on nuclear blasts close enough to the ground to kick up dust in the atmosphere, small enough particles to get longterm hangtime, that increases the amount of sunlight reflected away from the earth before the energy enters the earth´s system.

It´s the exact same thing as can happen and HAS happened from volcano eruptions and large meteorite impacts.

HB of CJ wrote:Also about the same as Pole Shift.


:lol:

The location of the poles are CONSTANTLY shifting in case you missed that.
A complete north/south reversal happens every 200k to 300k years in the last 20M years.
The BIG point about this however is that it would most likely NOT be a catastrophic event of the kind some idiots are proclaiming.

Reality:
Image


And north pole:
Image

Take note that the poles are not dependent on each others movement.

The earth is also currently overdue for a pole reversal, while the current pole movements are by quite a few looked at as the early part of a reversal.
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by HB of CJ   » Thu May 19, 2016 5:41 pm

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Tenshinal: Here we go again. Some arguments presented on this Excellent Forum are very non accurate.

POLE SHIFT!!! Physical flipping of the Earth in space. NOT MAGNETIC SHIFT!! Entirely different thing. Sorry.

We have never seen a Big Foot. But that does not preclude the possibility of its existence. Yikes! Guns guns guns!

Nuclear Winter is a political myth designed to scare the USA to the bargaining table. Did not work. Nuke Winter is fake.

Disinformation. The Commies themselves said it did not exist. Duhh. Mid 1980s. Big bombs. Air bursts. Not much dust.

I have multiple degrees in Fire Science. When I tell you American, European and other cites do not burn in that fashion, listen.

Big bombs then. The blast would put out most the fires. The cities would burn slowly, if not at all. No smoke. No winter.

Non disclosure legal agreements. SW OR USA may or may not have several deep VIP redoubts. I worked for a SW OR USA Congressman.

Enough said. But ... you did hoist me by my own Petard. You got me a good one and thank you. Why not take credit? You got me. :) :)
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Re: Under ground military bases
Post by Tenshinai   » Fri May 20, 2016 7:14 pm

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POLE SHIFT!!! Physical flipping of the Earth in space. NOT MAGNETIC SHIFT!! Entirely different thing. Sorry.


I don´t think i´ve ever heard anyone claim THAT.

Nuclear Winter is a political myth designed to scare the USA to the bargaining table. Did not work. Nuke Winter is fake.


Incorrect.

Disinformation. The Commies themselves said it did not exist. Duhh. Mid 1980s. Big bombs. Air bursts. Not much dust.


Where ever did you get that faery-tale from?

And yes, you can reduce the problem by minimizing dust by not using ground bursts, but that´s not the same as anyone crazy enough to start nuclear war to decide to DO so.
And once it comes to so called "city busters", ie really BIG nukes, even air bursts can add massive amounts of particles into the atmosphere.

I have multiple degrees in Fire Science. When I tell you American, European and other cites do not burn in that fashion, listen.

Big bombs then. The blast would put out most the fires. The cities would burn slowly, if not at all. No smoke. No winter.


I frankly don´t even know what you´re actually talking about. I cant even find anywhere anyone talking about cities burning one way or another.

And, from what you´re saying, you think cities burning have anything to do with causing nuclear winter? What moron told you that?
It can in theory contribute, just like large forest fires have caused temporary climate shifts of the smaller and regional sort, but most particles caused by ground fires wont even get into the high atmosphere, and most are also not small enough to get the hangtime needed to cause a lasting problem.

Enough said. But ... you did hoist me by my own Petard. You got me a good one and thank you. Why not take credit? You got me.


I don´t take credit for something neither my doing nor my intention.

Non disclosure legal agreements. SW OR USA may or may not have several deep VIP redoubts. I worked for a SW OR USA Congressman.


Well, i guess now we know where you get your bad information from... :twisted:
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