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Battletech

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Re: Battletech
Post by Tenshinai   » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:43 pm

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But they're not 'guided' they are cluster fired unguided rockets. more like the Russian 122mm or the German Nebelwerfer. I consider the 'standard' missiles to be preset, mechanical clockwork guidance (like WWII Torpedoes)


If they were really unguided, there would be a lot less hits. Of course, if they used guidance that is normal for today, there should be MORE hits instead.

I´ve just used it to add a tactical layer, running with it that as long as a mech is running active sensors, it´s also running basic ECM, if everyone´s on passive in the area, targeting gets an overall -1 bonus, and missile hit rolls switch to 2d6+6, removing the lowest d6 rolled.

That's the official line, but in truth, without production, you would run 'captured' supplies dry in no time. You have to have some production, especially with cannon ammo.


Of course, but the point is that the official line is that there´s been hundreds of years worth of standardising down to the most common types of ammo in use.
Think about how that´s been handled in the real world in just the last ONE century...
Standardisations have happened or been enforced and then replaced etc..

The big changes comes with radically new tech, so if you spend a few centuries with limited industrial ability, a fair amount of standardisation is likely(even if not quite to the level the basic game runs it as).


Anyway, not really critical at your choice of modding, flair is always nice.
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Re: Battletech
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:00 am

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Tenshinai wrote:If they were really unguided, there would be a lot less hits. Of course, if they used guidance that is normal for today, there should be MORE hits instead.

That's why I apply the DF rules (3D6 drop the highest roll) to 'unguided' (this includes such things as NARC or Simi-active/TAG when no trackers are in place or ECM blocks the target area) & DF-LRM/SRM is just a type of ammo, not a separate launcher. 'standard' is adjustable clockwork (fins adjusted for a given arc by the computer just before firing). All the 'heat-seeking' rules published suck, based on over-heat levels. If the target Mech isn't shutting itself down and blowing itself up with it's own over-heat issues, then they can't track it. And, if it is, then why bother wasting expensive missiles on it? I've been working on rules based on current heat uses, which makes more sense - since it would be the heat being expelled through the Heat-Sinks that would be trackable, not the heat still trapped inside the Mech.
Tenshinai wrote:I´ve just used it to add a tactical layer, running with it that as long as a mech is running active sensors, it´s also running basic ECM, if everyone´s on passive in the area, targeting gets an overall -1 bonus, and missile hit rolls switch to 2d6+6, removing the lowest d6 rolled.
.
An interesting take, I've never screwed around much with ECM, just the guardian rules, blocking NARC, etc... I've always considered BT to be low-tech, all that stuff was los-tech along with basic tracking etc. Such as earlier 20mm discussion, the WWII hand operated, crosshair sighted 20mm Oerlikon had maximum range of 4,800yd, that's 144 Hexes. Effective AA Range was 30 hexes!
Tenshinai wrote:Of course, but the point is that the official line is that there´s been hundreds of years worth of standardising down to the most common types of ammo in use.
Think about how that´s been handled in the real world in just the last ONE century...
Standardisations have happened or been enforced and then replaced etc..

The big changes comes with radically new tech, so if you spend a few centuries with limited industrial ability, a fair amount of standardisation is likely(even if not quite to the level the basic game runs it as).

Anyway, not really critical at your choice of modding, flair is always nice.
Well, yes & no, There was standardization in the SLDF, but not necessarily the local State and militia armies. They often received the SLDF cast-offs but more often produced their own local equipment (like the Israeli Merkava) The Periphery never had 'standardized' equipment and relied on their own local (unauthorized) production. What was 'standardized' by the SLDF had various politicians within the SL vying for 'their' district/planet/etc... getting the production. The production of these various components (and the components to build them) were scattered all over the IS so when war broke-out, component 'A' was produced in the DC while component 'B' was produced on the LC, and component 'A/2' which was needed to make component 'A' was made in the CC. so 'Standardization' would have broke down.
In real-world terms the idea is pushed but not maintained. the US/NATO is now using the 'Standard' 12cm rifled Tank gun while the Israeli army is content with the former 105mm rifle and none of the former 'Soviet' states use either of them (as far as I'm aware) they still use soviet weapons (as do their client states) Russia alone uses; 2A46 125 mm gun, D-81T (aka 2A46) 125 mm smoothbore gun and D-10T 100 mm rifled gun
China uses a 100 mm rifled gun and a 125mm SB, not much global 'standardization' there.
It is a huge tactical advantage for your army to be able to utilize enemy ammo while preventing them from using yours. That's why the Russians designed their 7.62mm rifles (SKS/AK-47) with a longer cartridge. Their weapons can feed standard NATO 30cal ammo but the M-60 can't use soviet 7.62mm ammo (it's too long to seat properly in the breach).
That's why I don't see the LC producing ammo that can be captured and used by the DCMS, they would have changed their gun production to make a slightly larger diameter gun whose ammo won't fit in the 'standard' DCMS gun (hence DC 10cm AC-10 and FC 10.5cm AC-11). I went off real-world examples for gun caliber, but am still not finished with assignments, the Periphery is still un-assigned. (I'm thinking of having the TC go off US as well, just split up some with the FWL, but what about the others? I still have Italian and French standards to assign, maybe France/Rim World Republic & Italy/Outworlds Alliance, M-H or M-o-C?) Something that would be very important, as they should have little (or no) energy weapon production. Their variants should be very AC/MG/Missile centric (with Missiles being the DF or 'standard'/clockwork guidance primarily).
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Re: Battletech
Post by Lord Skimper   » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:52 pm

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Duckk wrote:
Not as bad as all that, though the to-hit bonus doesn't apply to the 2nd shot, that's a pure 8+ 41.66% assuming the first shot hits.


6 tons, 6 crits to TarComp 3x UAC2s, not counting any other direct fire weapons? That's pretty massive.


I don't use Targetting computers with Ultra AC/2's put any Targeting computers weight and crits into extra ammo and just feed the extra rounds into the battle field. The 2's longer range lets you fire early and keep firing. Next to no heat and you can just keep firing.
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Re: Battletech
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:58 pm

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Lord Skimper wrote:I don't use Targetting computers with Ultra AC/2's put any Targeting computers weight and crits into extra ammo and just feed the extra rounds into the battle field. The 2's longer range lets you fire early and keep firing. Next to no heat and you can just keep firing.
Except that if you need a 13+ it doesn't matter how many rounds ricochet down range. Sometimes that extra +1 can mean the difference between hitting and not (which is why I prefer Pulse W/ TC +3 just try to make me miss) sure range is an issue (I.S. anyway) but that's why I carry a couple of ER's for when your just not here yet. For Clan it's LPL+TC all the way!

I was thinking of running an ER Vs. Pulse game at next years Texicon. all else = one side gets all Pulse Weapons the other all ER-PPC/Lasers
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Re: Battletech
Post by Lord Skimper   » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:01 pm

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In the computer version, which i typically play, one always can hit a target, or the one behind it. I also like using standard Large Lasers IS just out of preference. ER versions if I can handle the heat. I to used to play the Crescent Hawks Inception "Jason Youngblood" on my Amiga 500, but the Mechwarrior Games are so much fun. Lured in by the fancy graphics. I would love it if a New Crescent Hawks Inception Battle/Mech game could be made, even though mech 3 or 4 was pretty close. First person on foot would be pretty cool to.
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Re: Battletech
Post by MAD-4A   » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:23 pm

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Lord Skimper wrote:... I also like using standard Large Lasers IS just out of preference. ER versions if I can handle the heat...
Then you would like my RFL-3S Steiner Variant. It removed the 2 ML (redundant, I don't know why they put them in in the first place) replaces the AC-5s & ammo with 2 more LL, adds 7 HS and 2 tons of armor. That gives it 17HS, enough to walk and fire one arm (the others backup). If being attacked by air, you stand still and fire both arms (overheat +15 but no ammo to go boom) next turn (as the aircraft turns) you flush heat and restart, ready for the next pass. I have 3050/55 upgrades with DHS/ER/Pulse the best upgrades to Endo, DHS and 2xER-LL and 2xLPL (one of each, each arm) use the ERs at 11-19 hexes and switch to the LPL at 1-10 hexes (to-hit is the same at 10 but the LPL does 9pt instead of only 8 & better TH closer) against air - unload (as before - over heat then dump next turn).
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Re: Battletech
Post by Lord Skimper   » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:08 am

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I just stand waist deep in the water.
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Re: Battletech
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:55 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:I just stand waist deep in the water.

The new book is wrong, they screwed the rules up & claim that only leg mounted HS count. Most mechs don't have leg mounted HS. I ignore that rule in my games! The water is suppose to be "waist deep" that means the lower portion of the torsos are in the water, so any HS in the engine should count as in the water as-well, but the stupid TW book says they don't.
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Re: Battletech
Post by MAD-4A   » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:10 am

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Carried over from: http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8280&start=20&p=238770&view=show#p238770
Tenshinai wrote:
EVERY single week they ALWAYS had to bring in ARTY, or ASF, something like that.


*lol*

Too obsessed with realism, got it. :D

We were using 'Stackpole 8-bomb' rules and they were fusion powered SWs. "you can't do that! you'll hit your own mine field." "I know, and if that doesn't core them I have 14 tubs inbound right there, this turn" 2 8-bombs each hex driven by Death Commandos" :twisted: He didn't like being out-bombarded.


:twisted:

Out-munchkining the munchkin, good job. :mrgreen:

sorry, you lost me here.


Ah sorry, we once played some RPG characters for testing(wasn´t intended as a serious game campaign), except they turned out being lots of fun as long as you threw enough insane shit at them to dodge, that led to adopting the timeline changes they caused with their covert ops and then run that as a fullscale strategic game which ended up with almost every inner sphere state reduced in size, but with a bundle of new states capable of surviving, along with a CC that wasn´t automatically fishbait waiting to happen.

So, ever since that, we/I tend to use that background instead for any games, because they allow for so much more fun.


Yuki and Sakura Indrahar(with a very scary granduncle) were Mary Sue-ish to the limit, basically just meant as playtest characters created and played a bit to see how far the RPG system could be exploited, but they turned out hilarious to play, especially since they always always always just barely survived and got away with it(whatever "it" happened to be at the moment).

And they ended up messing with canon characters all over and everywhere(amusingly, more than 3/4s of those encounters came from random rolls, that´s part of why it became so ridiculously funny to keep running the campaign, we even started betting on what unlikely canon character they would randomly stumble on next, lots of fun).

Anyway, i liked what we ended up with around 3040s FAR more than the canon version.
Ah, I ran 2 campaigns but made sure they couldn't start effecting the base campaign line (not easy on the first) - {the second I'll explain fist - simpler:} took place between Clan invasion and FC-CW but I set it in an independent system between Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat. They started as dispossessed MW hired as a security team for an asteroid mining DS. While out they (of-course) got attacked by pirates and had to fight an anti-boarding action (which they succeeded very well) but the attacking Leopard backed off and threated to blow them up if they didn't surrender. taken prisoner they were taken back to the pirates HW (OA if I remember right - they were militia with a sideline) I was having them there to chose to A) join the pirates & start a campaign with them or B) steal what they need from them and start a campaign against them (their choice) but the group broke up - though some had started leading each way - I was going to use that as maybe against with infiltrators.

The first started in 3038 (great time - mostly 3025 junk pieced together with bubblegum but with new stuff being developed - so I can introduce 3050/2750 tech as desired), I stated them as (again dispossessed in the PH) hired as merc infantry in the MC. there they hired onto a Merc unit with a lance of mechs and some militia infantry. They managed to bring down a Hunchback, on foot, their first mech. they equipped themselves with equipment salvaged from the pirates they were fighting, a full PC Lance, with a shuttle, a DS (a Seeker class) and even a JS (non-standard class - old SL vintage no longer produced with 4 Docking rings). after that they hired onto the FC as a merc unit. The were sent in as part of an invasion force to the DC. after a very successful attack on the first planet, they were getting uppity and, the next invasion fell flat (3039) their DS (and the Merc units original half-crippled Excalibur) were both destroyed along with most of the NPC unit. they were left to find for themselves on a hostile planet with no extraction. really good guerilla campaign & they eventually did get extracted (with a shuttle and 1 Spider). after that they went on a series of raids, initially into the DC, but then they started into the CC, and the campaign ended there. the main leader character had already retired and the player brought in a new player (a ham-fisted AS pilot who could barley fly, but had a ton of edge points for when he really needed to succeed. - he always made interesting characters).

When a campaign is going too-good and they get uppity, don't be afraid to distract the PCs somewhere and when they return "the camp's a smoking hole, no survivors - sorry - your on your own." in my case, they launched a raid with the 2 mech units splitting up and while they were gone, a squadron of DCMS AS fighters vectored in for a strafing run and hit the Excal on the ground (had a hard landing and couldn't take off) ... "BOOOOMB" the now crippled Seeker tried to run-for-it. but they last saw it being pursued by a flight of fighters as it disappeared over the horizon, never heard from again.
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Re: Battletech
Post by Lord Skimper   » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:09 pm

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So how about this. Innersphere tech only.

90 Ton Cyclops CP R3D

Walking 3
Running 5
Jumping 3
TSM-W 4
TSM-R 6
Armour 272
Head 9
CT 40/11
RT / LT 30/8
RA / LA 30
RL / LL 38

Triple Strength Myomer 6
Double Heatsink 10/20 0
9 tons Standard Chassis 0
13.5 ton 270 GM 0
5 tons Cockpit and gyros 0
6 tons Jump Jets (3) 3
17 tons Star Slab Armour 0
11 tons LB 10X LT 6
1 ton LB 10X Ammo (10) Shot LT 1
1 ton LB 10X Ammo (10) Shot LT 1
1 ton LB 10X Ammo (10) Slug LT 1
1 ton LB 10X Ammo (10) Slug LT 1
0.5 ton CASE LT 1
0.5 ton CASE RT 1
3 tons Anti Missile Ammo (36) RT 3
0.5 ton Anti Missile CT 1
0.5 ton Anti Missile CT 1
0.5 ton Anti Missile LT 1
2 tons Medium Pulse Laser H 1
2 tons Medium Pulse Laser LA 1
2 tons Medium Pulse Laser LA 1
2 tons Medium Pulse Laser LA 1
2 tons Medium Pulse Laser RA 1
2 tons Medium Pulse Laser RA 1
2 tons Medium Pulse Laser RA 1
5 tons C3 Computer RT 5

I like the cyclops, I like the Medium pulse laser especially in Mechwarrior games as you can modulate the length of the pulse, damage and heat. In Battletech the extra heat works great with the triple strength. LB10X can be both an AC 10 and LRM 10 that can't be blocked. MW3 lets one use multiple anti missile which gives one high lrm/Srm protection. With the Pulse Medium Lasers one can ignore and pop toads at will.
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