Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Tenshinai   » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:20 am

Tenshinai
Admiral

Posts: 2893
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:34 pm
Location: Sweden

Daryl wrote:I was involved in the development of the Tiger into Australian service, where we integrated avionics and hardware. Can't say much, except if one was looking for me I'd like a shovel and time to get deep, as it was exceptional.


Yeah, i saw some rough info on it when they tried selling it to Sweden, neat.
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Castenea   » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:45 pm

Castenea
Captain of the List

Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:21 pm
Location: MD

Tenshinai wrote:On the one hand, that gun would be pretty nasty against a ship, but OTOH, it´s not really a very effective gun, it´s made to spray a target area, using excessive amounts of ammo compared to what it achieves.

So, you could probably replace it with a lighter, slower firing but much more accurate gun using the same ammo, or potentially give it something like a 40mm gun with even slower ROF but seriously strong punch, and STILL save enough weight to allow for a hook and not loose any performance.

Still, attacking ships with guns today is generally a terrible idea, because the ship nearly always has a gun that can reach out further, the ship is a better gun platform, it has all the sensors it needs to do this with ease, and the A-10 is a SLOW flier.
Any ship beyond "lightly defended" is probably more or less suicidal to attack at gunrange.

Tom Clancy has A-10s sink a ship in Red Storm Rising, however they used something a lot more realistic than their gun, Air dropped Torps. If you are in Gun range with any airplane of a defended ship you are too close, that is what tin fish and air launched cruise missiles are for.
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Tenshinai   » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:55 am

Tenshinai
Admiral

Posts: 2893
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:34 pm
Location: Sweden

Castenea wrote:Tom Clancy has A-10s sink a ship in Red Storm Rising, however they used something a lot more realistic than their gun, Air dropped Torps. If you are in Gun range with any airplane of a defended ship you are too close, that is what tin fish and air launched cruise missiles are for.


Tom Clancy also had the F-19 be real. Along with a LOT of other absolute crap, some of which was essentially just a cheap propaganda outlet.

Sorry but TC, once upon a time i liked his books...

Then when i got more knowledgeable myself i started noting just how unconcerned about reality he was with oh so many things, especially technology, and how the good guys always have just what they need.
It´s not that he takes liberties with reality that is a problem, it´s that he does it while claiming it to be reality or close, ie "i´m not a scifi writer" as he expressed it himself. Except that IS what he is.

THEN, i realised how nearly all his books are repeats of the same story, how the good guys always catch the lucky break at just the right time, how those same lucky breaks NEVER happen for the bad guys(except to cause their demise, and well, that really kills the "lucky" part anyway), and then of course there´s all the sad and pathetic overuse of klichés.

I still have a dozen of his books in my shelves, but they´re mostly gathering dust behind James Clavell´s books for many years now.
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by WLBjork   » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:30 pm

WLBjork
Commander

Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:45 am

Tenshinai wrote:
Castenea wrote:Tom Clancy has A-10s sink a ship in Red Storm Rising, however they used something a lot more realistic than their gun, Air dropped Torps. If you are in Gun range with any airplane of a defended ship you are too close, that is what tin fish and air launched cruise missiles are for.


Tom Clancy also had the F-19 be real.


Red Storm Rising, published 1986.

Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1986-1987, 1987-1988 and 1988-1989 included the F19. Not only that, there were 3 flight simulators based on it and at least 2 models. For a book in 1986, it wasn't an unreasonable inclusion.


I have to say that the A10 isn't, IMO, perfect. It's great for hunting tanks, it's great for surviving in high-threat environments due to its redundancy and design.

The problem is that dang 30mm cannon throws big rounds, and even the training rounds have a lot of energy which will make the shockwave disorientating (possibly disabling) when fired close to friendly troops - not to mention that 5MOA accuracy level. In other words, it's not a precision weapon for short range support.

So, whilst the A10 shouldn't be retired without a direct replacement, I think it should be supplemented by a new (turboprop - which no doubt will upset the USAF) aircraft, built with similar levels of survivability and designed for the COIN role, with a principle armament of 7.62mm and/or 12.7mm machine guns.

Oh, and I'd support the replacement for the A10 being a 2-seated. I've seen one incident where 2 A10s failed to properly communicate with the ground controller, resulting in them strafing a Scorpion or Scimitar light tank and causing casualties.
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Daryl   » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:43 am

Daryl
Admiral

Posts: 2257
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

A possible new development.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... 55edb06cff

Makes some sense. Relatively low cost, so you can have more of them.
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by aairfccha   » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:51 am

aairfccha
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:03 pm

Daryl wrote:A possible new development.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/innov ... 55edb06cff

Makes some sense. Relatively low cost, so you can have more of them.

That seems the just latest twitch of a program running since 2009 and there are numerous aircraft which could fill this role. In addition to those listed in the Wikipedia article, both Aero L-159 (relatively current) and Alpha Jet (1970s) spring to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Attack/Armed_Reconnaissance
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by robert132   » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:54 pm

robert132
Captain of the List

Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:20 pm

WLBjork wrote:
Tenshinai wrote:Tom Clancy also had the F-19 be real.


Red Storm Rising, published 1986.

Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1986-1987, 1987-1988 and 1988-1989 included the F19. Not only that, there were 3 flight simulators based on it and at least 2 models. For a book in 1986, it wasn't an unreasonable inclusion.


True, I played some of those games. To give Mr. Clancy his due he did put a LOT of research into the tech behind his stories, all of it from open sources like "Aviation Leak and Space Technologies" and so forth. Some was so accurate the NIS(NCIS) visited him to check his sources and claims.

I met the gent once while he was doing research for Red Storm, he visited my ship (USS Caron) and at the conclusion of the visit he asked our skipper what class Soviet sub he most wanted to sink. I don't know what the Captain's answer was but he had us nail a Tango SSK after she put a torp into USS America (CV 66) without sinking the birdfarm - unrealistic because even in those days both sides recognized the best way to at least mission kill a large combatant (battlewagon or carrier) is to detonate a large warhead under the keel, and the Soviets easily had that capability as did we.

I have to say that the A10 isn't, IMO, perfect. It's great for hunting tanks, it's great for surviving in high-threat environments due to its redundancy and design.

The problem is that dang 30mm cannon throws big rounds, and even the training rounds have a lot of energy which will make the shockwave disorientating (possibly disabling) when fired close to friendly troops - not to mention that 5MOA accuracy level. In other words, it's not a precision weapon for short range support.


As an aside I should say that NO ONE who has ever been on the receiving end of a burst from that gawd-awful gun ever wanted to repeat the experience. ;)

So, whilst the A10 shouldn't be retired without a direct replacement, I think it should be supplemented by a new (turboprop - which no doubt will upset the USAF) aircraft, built with similar levels of survivability and designed for the COIN role, with a principle armament of 7.62mm and/or 12.7mm machine guns.

Oh, and I'd support the replacement for the A10 being a 2-seated. I've seen one incident where 2 A10s failed to properly communicate with the ground controller, resulting in them strafing a Scorpion or Scimitar light tank and causing casualties.


There are some proposals out there for an A-10 replacement that seem pretty interesting. And there are a number of lighter and less expensive aircraft that could augment the numbers of COIN aircraft or serve the same role for the Afghan Air Farce or Iraqis if they ever get to the level of where they could be trusted.

Meanwhile, for a close support helo for our Afghan and Iraqi allied there is always the Russian Mi-24/25. It can be one hell of a machine when properly armed and utilized.

"We don't fear the Russians (Soviets,) but we DO fear their helicopters." - Attributed to a Taliban commander.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:29 pm

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3824
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

robert132 wrote:... or serve the same role for the Afghan Air Farce ...


The A-29 Super Tucano turboprops supplied to the Afghan Air Force by the U.S. have flown hundreds of combat missions amid concerns over mounting civilian casualties caused in the airstrikes, Gen. John Nicholson said Thursday.

...

Since the Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucanos became operational in April 2016, they "have done in excess of 800 missions" flown by the Afghan pilots trained at Moody Air Force Base, Georgia, Nicholson said.


http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017 ... canos.html
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by Annachie   » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:42 pm

Annachie
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:36 pm

Clancy wasn't so much SciFi as he brought tech that was expected soon forward, and in perfect working order.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: My rant/fantasy regarding the A-10(A&B) Warthog.
Post by robert132   » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:44 pm

robert132
Captain of the List

Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:20 pm

Weird Harold wrote:
The A-29 Super Tucano turboprops supplied to the Afghan Air Force by the U.S. have flown hundreds of combat missions amid concerns over mounting civilian casualties caused in the airstrikes, Gen. John Nicholson said Thursday.

...

Since the Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucanos became operational in April 2016, they "have done in excess of 800 missions" flown by the Afghan pilots trained at Moody Air Force Base, Georgia, Nicholson said.


http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017 ... canos.html


That's one of the fixed wing jobs I was thinking about, nice plane from what I've read.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
Top

Return to Free-Range Topics...