Ebola Virus

The flu is not scary because tens of millions of people get it and most of them don't die. Ebola is scary because a few people get it and a lot of them die - 40% to 90% depending on which variety, and the treatment given. When people are scared, some of them do foolish things.
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When someone does a foolish thing, you should say it is a foolish thing. They may still continue to do it, but at least the truth is where it needs to be.

The flu can be scary because after WW1 many tens of millions did get it and 50 to 100 million died.

Imaginos1892 wrote:The flu is not scary because tens of millions of people get it and most of them don't die. Ebola is scary because a few people get it and a lot of them die - 40% to 90% depending on which variety, and the treatment given. When people are scared, some of them do foolish things.
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When someone does a foolish thing, you should say it is a foolish thing. They may still continue to do it, but at least the truth is where it needs to be.

An eighth of the Hot Zone in audio
http://youtu.be/m5kjNMhQffQ

Ebola virus outbreak 2014 warning
http://youtu.be/EaZqfwFVjgQ

Pestilence : Mutating Airborne Ebola Virus Diagnosed inside US for the first time
http://youtu.be/dDsPrWK68Hs

In the Hot Zone with Virus X - Richard Preston:
http://youtu.be/17Yh6xkCNpQ

Elbows-Deep in Ebola Virus - Richard Preston:
http://youtu.be/5G6A4ttmruA

Conspiracy Theories

America invented the Ebola virus to 'kill Africans' and deliberately left victim Thomas Eric Duncan to die 'like a dog' in revenge for bringing the disease into the U.S, his sister claimed today.
In an extraordinary interview with MailOnline, grieving Mary Pearson claimed that the deadly virus was created as part of an experiment to infect black people on the continent - echoing the views of a race-hate preacher who says Ebola was invented to 'depopulate' Africa.
Mrs Pearson, 52, who runs a general store in Liberian capital Monrovia, said: 'What we heard is that Ebola was created by the Americans and they sent it to kill us.
'You are the ones that sent it to kill us. They sent the virus and infected people here.Then they blamed Liberians for Ebola. They killed that boy for nothing.'
Thomas Eric Duncan died in Dallas on October 8 after flying to the US from Liberia three weeks earlier. He was infected when he helped a pregnant neighbour seek hospital treatment.

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan has made wild claims that the virus was designed by white scientists specifically to kill off black people - conspiracy theories repeated by villagers in parts of the country.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3IzdY0ztL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

cthia wrote:Conspiracy Theories

America invented the Ebola virus to 'kill Africans' and deliberately left victim Thomas Eric Duncan to die 'like a dog' in revenge for bringing the disease into the U.S, his sister claimed today.
In an extraordinary interview with MailOnline, grieving Mary Pearson claimed that the deadly virus was created as part of an experiment to infect black people on the continent - echoing the views of a race-hate preacher who says Ebola was invented to 'depopulate' Africa.
Mrs Pearson, 52, who runs a general store in Liberian capital Monrovia, said: 'What we heard is that Ebola was created by the Americans and they sent it to kill us.
'You are the ones that sent it to kill us. They sent the virus and infected people here.Then they blamed Liberians for Ebola. They killed that boy for nothing.'
Thomas Eric Duncan died in Dallas on October 8 after flying to the US from Liberia three weeks earlier. He was infected when he helped a pregnant neighbour seek hospital treatment.

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan has made wild claims that the virus was designed by white scientists specifically to kill off black people - conspiracy theories repeated by villagers in parts of the country.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3IzdY0ztL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

This is a variation of the AIDS conspiracy theory. Basically the same thing, AIDS was invented by white scientists to kill of blacks. The Ebola modification is a new one.

The response to both is the same.

1. We wouldn't do that.

That's not particularly convincing to the conspiracy theorists because A) they don't believe that and B) it doesn't rule out insane psychopath(s) acting on their own.

2. We couldn't do that even if we were insane enough to want to!

A) The first confirmed AIDS case was in 1959 (probably others existed before that but were not identified)

B) The first recorded Ebola outbreak was in 1976 (as above probably existed before that but not identified)

C) I doubt that even with state of the art technology we could do it now. There is absolutely no way this could have been done in 1976/1959!!!!!!


I wish they would believe number 2 at least. However, the conspiracy theorists like so many people are scientifically illiterate. We really need to improve science education for the non-scientist.

biochem wrote:
I wish they would believe number 2 at least. However, the conspiracy theorists like so many people are scientifically illiterate. We really need to improve science education for the non-scientist.

Unfortunately, it goes beyond mere illiteracy, even here in America. That can be remedied by personal application to learning things. But the disdain for education and 'being smart'... or even having a bit of a BS filter on what one gets from the media etc is a personal choice. It is also nothing new here.

But the germ conspiracies unfortunately have some basis in history. The US government DID intentionally not treat black men with Syphilis, to study the full course of the disease. There have been other dubious incidents involving possible bio or chem weapons release here or elsewhere. The USSR had its problems with that also. I vaguely recall a big anthrax kill from a bioweapons plant mess up there.

We also developed bioweapons, as did many other nations and possibly non-national organizations as well. Supposedly, ours were destroyed. I hope that is true. But I can understand why people, both here and abroad, are very skeptical as to the benign intentions or actions of the USA. Too darn often our intentions and/or our actions have not been benign... or even sane.

Is that stuff still going on? I sure hope not.

Do I think we are/were the only ones doing such things? No, emphatically no. See Bioaparat and Vector programs in the old USSR. Are those defunct? I hope so. But I'd bet nothing on it being so. I'm sure we can all name any number of other regimes with... dubious intentions.

And who is to say one of them has not unleashed nasty bugs on the world? Pehaps ones that make Americans stupid and disdainfdul of using one's mind in a rational manner.

The world is not as I wish it was, nor is my country.

Did the USA invent either Ebola or HIV? Highly doubtful.... To be cynical, if we had, they'd probably be a lot more... efficient at their supposed purposes. The bioweaponeers do have some pride in their work, afterall.

Northstar wrote:

biochem wrote:
I wish they would believe number 2 at least. However, the conspiracy theorists like so many people are scientifically illiterate. We really need to improve science education for the non-scientist.

Unfortunately, it goes beyond mere illiteracy, even here in America. That can be remedied by personal application to learning things. But the disdain for education and 'being smart'... or even having a bit of a BS filter on what one gets from the media etc is a personal choice. It is also nothing new here.

But the germ conspiracies unfortunately have some basis in history. The US government DID intentionally not treat black men with Syphilis, to study the full course of the disease. There have been other dubious incidents involving possible bio or chem weapons release here or elsewhere. The USSR had its problems with that also. I vaguely recall a big anthrax kill from a bioweapons plant mess up there.

We also developed bioweapons, as did many other nations and possibly non-national organizations as well. Supposedly, ours were destroyed. I hope that is true. But I can understand why people, both here and abroad, are very skeptical as to the benign intentions or actions of the USA. Too darn often our intentions and/or our actions have not been benign... or even sane.

Is that stuff still going on? I sure hope not.

Do I think we are/were the only ones doing such things? No, emphatically no. See Bioaparat and Vector programs in the old USSR. Are those defunct? I hope so. But I'd bet nothing on it being so. I'm sure we can all name any number of other regimes with... dubious intentions.

And who is to say one of them has not unleashed nasty bugs on the world? Pehaps ones that make Americans stupid and disdainfdul of using one's mind in a rational manner.

The world is not as I wish it was, nor is my country.

Did the USA invent either Ebola or HIV? Highly doubtful.... To be cynical, if we had, they'd probably be a lot more... efficient at their supposed purposes. The bioweaponeers do have some pride in their work, afterall.

Another nice post Northstar. You all have been terrific in this thread! Kudos!

Just a slight note though. First off, you beat me to the Blacks and Syphillis facts.

On another note, one of the conspiracy theories does not claim the US as designers of Ebola, just that they (US) used the virus as biological warfare to depopulate Africa, which has long been a target since the dissolution of Apartheid (from theorist eyes).

Part of that stems from the knowledge of The CDC Vault, which contain frozen samples of lethal viruses. The Vault has always been a source of fear, paranoia, disagreement and anger for many.

Good point on the would with the example of the syphilis.

And I did come up with a method of how it could be done. Originally I was defaulting to biochemistry/genetic type approaches (which is my personal bias and also seems to be the bias of the conspiracy theorists who claim we invented it) and I still doubt we have the knowledge to do it that way now.

But there is a pharmacology method, serial passage, that has been around since the 1800s and while unlikely, it is at least theoretically possible. Pharmacologists (not my area of expertise) routinely use this method to artificially change target species of viruses for research purposes and both these viruses arose from mutated animal viruses. So in theory it is possible that some secret Psychopaths R Us Inc group used this method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_passage

Sadly there are plenty of incredibly stupid scientists out there.

I have read of a project to replicate the virus responsible for the 1918 "Spanish Flu" pandemic, and another group who thought nothing of combining Swine and Avian flu virus DNA, and then incredibly running it through lab animals (by infecting them with it) to create a more virulent version. (Their effort to publish the results was quashed by the US government, one of the few times I support censorship). Some forms of flu virus can have up to 30% mortality, and flu is both airborne and very easily spread through a wide variety of means.

The DNA sequence for Variola Major (Smallpox) was apparently released on the Internet at one point, until it was noticed and quickly pulled.

We aren't going to be killed by Dr Evil, but by some obnoxious prick who doesn't look up from the lab bench to think about the ethics or possible consequences of his/her work.

Thucydides wrote:Sadly there are plenty of incredibly stupid scientists out there.

I have read of a project to replicate the virus responsible for the 1918 "Spanish Flu" pandemic, and another group who thought nothing of combining Swine and Avian flu virus DNA, and then incredibly running it through lab animals (by infecting them with it) to create a more virulent version. (Their effort to publish the results was quashed by the US government, one of the few times I support censorship). Some forms of flu virus can have up to 30% mortality, and flu is both airborne and very easily spread through a wide variety of means.

The DNA sequence for Variola Major (Smallpox) was apparently released on the Internet at one point, until it was noticed and quickly pulled.

We aren't going to be killed by Dr Evil, but by some obnoxious prick who doesn't look up from the lab bench to think about the ethics or possible consequences of his/her work.

Alas, you are all too correct.

From The Demon in the Freezer, by Richard Preston. After Smallpox had been eradicated in Nature a scientist working in Britain was doing research on it. The virus got loose and infected a woman working in another office. I'm vague on the details now. Smallpox is one of those horrors that can float on air currents, essentially behaving like smoke. Anyway, when he found out what he'd done he killed himself. But it illustrates your point, precisely. It was only luck that restricted the contagion to one poor woman.

The Demon in the Freezer, btw, was the source of the conversation I mentioned in another post that took place between Ken Alabek and an American bioweaponeeer that was thoroughly creepy as these two chatted about wind drift and other aspects of how a bioweapon behaves on air currents. How long would it take to get from there to Richmond etc. brrrr.

There is also a story in there about some Australian scientists who merrily published their results and how-tos of creating a virulent mousepox with a 100% kill rate. What you can do to mousepox you can do to other pox viruses, of which there are legion. I repeat this to illustrate your excellent point about idiots at lab benches.

I'm not so much worried about governments intentionally releasing disasters as I am about either sloppy idiots - like the ones who gave us Africanized killer bees for example, or the sort of persons who think humanity is a verminous parasite on the planet and the Earth would be better off if humanity went extinct or at least got severely depopulated. It would only take one of those jackasses actually getting their hands on or creating some horror...

On Ebola, Christina Sarich has a story posted on http://www.naturalsociety.com about the CDC waffling on whether or not Ebola can be airborne spread to some extent after all or not. sigh. Obviously, it does not spread easily that way, if it could spread like the common cold Africa would be a graveyard and the rest of the world fast on the way to it. This is not happening, at least so far, and I sure hope it never does. Even so... they seem to have a problem knowing what they're talking about. This does not inspire confidence in their pronouncements.

She has another story, also currently posted on their front page, about how this is an entirely new strain of Ebola. hmmm. Interested persons might want to read both stories and maybe do some digging for more info.