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The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry

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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Annachie   » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:59 am

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Relax wrote:
Annachie wrote:I don't think any closed by government fiat.

Uneconomical, yes.


Enjoy swallowing Bull Shit every morning full of Government fiat Carbon Taxes... :roll: Puts them behind 8 ball. Repeal Carbon tax. Then add large permitting hurdles for replacement on top of super stringent stack emissions mandates.

None of which depends on one thing of a "conservative" or "liberal" government which cannot change previous administrations policies instantly.



What a load of shit.

Tell me, when did Tasmania close it's coal powered plants?

After all, by your reckoning it will be post 2010 or so.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Joat42   » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:28 am

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Relax wrote:Your tax "subsidies" which are in fact tax PENALTIES and not subsidies at all as ONLY O/G pay them. No one else. Anyone with a rational mind can see they apply on top of taxes everyone else pays.

If you cannot admit to this VERY BASIC reality, then the only words to describe your actions is either liar, or dumb. You choose. It is Ok, I have said many dumb things in life before. Your statements in this thread show that you too can say stupid dumb things as well.

I get the feeling you don't even want to understand WHY the Oil and Gas industry pays higher taxes, since you insist it's because they are penalized, but I'll ask again even though I know you are dishonest and will probably not provide a factual answer: Please enumerate how Oil and Gas are penalized? Saying that they pay higher taxes than other industries doesn't cut it, since that is an established fact.

And also provide an answer to why a tax-benefit doesn't count if applied to Oil and Gas? Perhaps you don't understand the simple fact that a benefit is still a benefit even if applied to an industry that has higher taxes overall.

Also, why do you insist on only taking about tax-benefits on profits? Perhaps it has escaped you that there are a myriad ways for an industry to receive tax-benefits that has nothing to do with income tax.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Daryl   » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:20 am

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I've got a life outside of these pages, so have just returned, in a quiet period.
Reading what you have written I can't see where you have rebutted my statement at all. Both South Australia and Tasmania have no remaining coal powered generators, agreed. So? The old ones weren't closed by government fiat. Plain old fashioned (conservative?) economics over time. Exactly as I said. No government action or influence.
Queensland (my state) does have the most modern coal plants in our country, mostly owned by the government. They are scheduled to live out their normal operational lives, but over time there are more and more renewables being brought onto line, and our power prices are dropping.


Relax wrote:
Daryl wrote:Just plain wrong.
None closed by government fiat. Progressive states like Queensland, Tasmania and South Australia kept their generators so have cheaper power.

Lets fact check that.... Tasmania... uses mostly hydro and has ZERO Coal stations... hrmm -1

South Australia.... has ZERO coal fired power plants... -1

Not bad, only 2 out of 3 wrong...

Your version of Two Thumbs up?
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Daryl   » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:26 am

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You had better get a job with the coal power industry in our most populous states of New South Wales and Victoria. As that is their public official excuse for their grids being in crisis over the past two summers.
My State (Queensland) has kept New South Wales afloat each summer with our two interconnectors maxing out, sending power from our renewable sources to them. Meanwhile Victoria has similarly been kept afloat by South Australia and Tasmania, sending their renewable power to them during the heat waves.



Relax wrote:
Daryl wrote:I forgot. Coal is our least reliable source for a couple of reasons, definitely true.
As Anna says coal stations are generally older.
However, despite what Climate Change Deniers claim, Australia has had more than its share of raised temperatures. In summer, weeks of over 40 degrees C temperatures have broken thermal plants. Modern gas turbines and renewables are coping well, but steam plants (fueled by coal or gas) are dependent on temperature differentials, and are operating outside their design parameters.

No, 40C has zilch to do with anything regarding the coal plant. What is temperature of the fired boiler? Thot 1000C. What is Tcold? 40C for a short period everyday instead of 20C or 30C etc for air cooled. Water cooled is steady.
What is efficiency again? 1 - Tcold/Thot

40C water input instead of 20C... Vapor pressure is what again for water? Operating range between zero to 85C generally speaking. Higher temps just requires more water for same cooling effect, or in case of air cooled, superior radiators. Or in case of raised river temps; superior radiators. You, the plant operator can choose.

Playing the, Its the temperatures stupid is beyond hilariously rediculous as these plants were designed to operate in these conditions and have been doing so for the last 100 years. We did not invent radiator science yesterday..... Even if assume the initial installation were designed for lower input feed water, the fix only requires a larger radiator/pump to "fix" this "problem".
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Annachie   » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:13 am

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I suppose I'll end up answering my own question with this, but I don't remember Tasmania ever having coal powered plants.

I suspect it did before the Franklyn hydro* was built, but that was 30 or 40 years ago.

Given my age, I only remember the protest song ;)

*Wow, 1983 and the project I was thinking of was stopped. They built two others though on nearby rivers.

The protest song.

https://youtu.be/jyU7KxVBGP8
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Relax   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:36 am

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Joat42 wrote: Please enumerate how Oil and Gas are penalized? Saying that they pay higher taxes than other industries doesn't cut it, since that is an established fact.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

With your own mouth... oh priceless. Do keep typing.

You will eventually admit O&G are penalized compared to wind/solar for energy production and not ***subsidized***.
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Joat42   » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:43 am

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Relax wrote:
Joat42 wrote: Please enumerate how Oil and Gas are penalized? Saying that they pay higher taxes than other industries doesn't cut it, since that is an established fact.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

With your own mouth... oh priceless. Do keep typing.

You will eventually admit O&G are penalized compared to wind/solar for energy production and not ***subsidized***.

It seems reading comprehension and how taxes work isn't your thing.

You haven't YET managed to produce one shred of evidence that Oil and Gas are penalized.

Perhaps you lack the understanding that every industry should carry their own secondary costs - and that's why different industries can be taxed differently. But that doesn't mean that they can't get tax-benefits.

You are stupidly arguing that because Oil and Gas have higher taxes any tax-benefits they get doesn't count.

So, please tell me if you dare - how is the Oil and Gas industry penalized? Considering your earlier answers you will probably evade and deflect again since it doesn't seem you can debate honestly. Or perhaps you just don't understand how it all works, because that would destroy your narrative.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Relax   » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:04 pm

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Joat42 wrote:So, please tell me if you dare - how is the Oil and Gas industry penalized? Considering your earlier answers you will probably evade and deflect again since it doesn't seem you can debate honestly. Or perhaps you just don't understand how it all works, because that would destroy your narrative.


So, according to your logic:
If governments, tomorrow, enacted a production tax on solar panel electricity production of 5% based upon retail average price in WTI equivalent, this is a subsidy in your warped mind....
:shock: :shock: :shock: :? :? :? :o :o :!: :?: :!: :?: :!: :?: :roll: :roll: :roll: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Don't worry, governments still collect base sales tax on that electricity ...
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Joat42   » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:01 pm

Joat42
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Relax wrote:
Joat42 wrote:So, please tell me if you dare - how is the Oil and Gas industry penalized? Considering your earlier answers you will probably evade and deflect again since it doesn't seem you can debate honestly. Or perhaps you just don't understand how it all works, because that would destroy your narrative.


So, according to your logic:
If governments, tomorrow, enacted a production tax on solar panel electricity production of 5% based upon retail average price in WTI equivalent, this is a subsidy in your warped mind....
:shock: :shock: :shock: :? :? :? :o :o :!: :?: :!: :?: :!: :?: :roll: :roll: :roll: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Don't worry, governments still collect base sales tax on that electricity ...

No, I've never said such thing. What you have strongly implied is that regardless of what tax benefits Oil and Gas get it doesn't count since they have higher taxes overall or they don't make a profit. You don't even understand why they pay higher taxes, since you haven't been able to explain how Oil and Gas are "penalized" as you say.

All you have said so far is that I'm wrong or that others lie, but you haven't presented one shred of evidence of that. Perhaps you should keep up with current affairs and not be stuck in the past.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: The World Has 42 +/- years left then the well runs dry
Post by Relax   » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:17 pm

Relax
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Joat42 wrote:No, I've never said such thing. :roll: :roll: :roll: You don't even understand why they pay higher taxes, s :roll: :roll: :roll:


You can't state WHY they SHOULD pay higher taxes if one wants an "EQUAL" world. Yet you want ME to explain how your mind works? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry dude, I can't see inside your head.
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Relax
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