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DEFCON

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DEFCON
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:15 pm

cthia
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Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: DEFCON
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:41 pm

cthia
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What goes on during the various levels of DEFCON?


Wedges can't remain active around the clock.

Sting ships can't stay in the air indefinitely.

On what level do we Castle the Queen?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: DEFCON
Post by cthia   » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:12 pm

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Readiness condition. Exercise term. Description Readiness.

DEFCON 1: COCKED PISTOL Nuclear war is imminent or has already started. Maximum readiness. Immediate response.

DEFCON 2: FAST PACE Next step to nuclear war Armed forces ready to deploy and engage in less than six hours.

DEFCON 3: ROUND HOUSE Increase in force readiness above that required for normal readiness. Air Force ready to mobilize in 15 minutes.

DEFCON 4: DOUBLE TAKE Increased intelligence watch and strengthened security measures. Above normal readiness.

DEFCON 5: FADE OUT Lowest state of readiness Normal readiness.

CASE ZULU = COCKED PISTOL. Nuclear war is imminent.

Anyone care to guess what state of readiness Manticore went to upon Eloise Pritchard arriving unannounced in the system?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: DEFCON
Post by cthia   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:45 pm

cthia
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OMG!

What stink did Honor stir when she showed up in the MBS, having risen from the dead?

Here's a woman half the size of Olive Oyl. Actually, Honor would have made Olive Oyl look fat. And get this. She's carrying some skinny ass, FUGLY THING, half the size of Nimitz, with no fur, and not a bit of damn fight in him. It looks more like a starved weasel. And both are trying to pass themselves off as Honor and Nimitz.

Well, at least Honor knew to wait at the edge of the system before telling that tall tale.

The system went from Fast Pace to Cocked Pistol at the mention of Honor's name.

MIGHTY HONOR could have gotten herself killed . . .

with COCKED PISTOL :lol:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: DEFCON
Post by phillies   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:05 pm

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For one of the many novels I am slowly writing, the aliens (who do not have space ships, only gates that appear at ground level, have invaded the United States starting in Wyoming, They have atomic bomb neutralizer fields. To what DefCon does the US go?

cthia wrote:Readiness condition. Exercise term. Description Readiness.

DEFCON 1: COCKED PISTOL Nuclear war is imminent or has already started. Maximum readiness. Immediate response.

DEFCON 2: FAST PACE Next step to nuclear war Armed forces ready to deploy and engage in less than six hours.

DEFCON 3: ROUND HOUSE Increase in force readiness above that required for normal readiness. Air Force ready to mobilize in 15 minutes.

DEFCON 4: DOUBLE TAKE Increased intelligence watch and strengthened security measures. Above normal readiness.

DEFCON 5: FADE OUT Lowest state of readiness Normal readiness.

CASE ZULU = COCKED PISTOL. Nuclear war is imminent.

Anyone care to guess what state of readiness Manticore went to upon Eloise Pritchard arriving unannounced in the system?
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Re: DEFCON
Post by cthia   » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:08 am

cthia
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phillies wrote:For one of the many novels I am slowly writing, the aliens (who do not have space ships, only gates that appear at ground level, have invaded the United States starting in Wyoming, They have atomic bomb neutralizer fields. To what DefCon does the US go?

cthia wrote:Readiness condition. Exercise term. Description Readiness.

DEFCON 1: COCKED PISTOL Nuclear war is imminent or has already started. Maximum readiness. Immediate response.

DEFCON 2: FAST PACE Next step to nuclear war Armed forces ready to deploy and engage in less than six hours.

DEFCON 3: ROUND HOUSE Increase in force readiness above that required for normal readiness. Air Force ready to mobilize in 15 minutes.

DEFCON 4: DOUBLE TAKE Increased intelligence watch and strengthened security measures. Above normal readiness.

DEFCON 5: FADE OUT Lowest state of readiness Normal readiness.

CASE ZULU = COCKED PISTOL. Nuclear war is imminent.

Anyone care to guess what state of readiness Manticore went to upon Eloise Pritchard arriving unannounced in the system?

What are these "gates?" Is that a typo, or are the Earthlings being corraled?

I'd say COCKED PISTOL still exists. Just as soon as Earth disables the anti-nuclear device, we will detonate.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: DEFCON
Post by cthia   » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:04 pm

cthia
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The US, as I understand it, has been no higher than DEFCON 2, once, during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Of course, the system wasn't enacted until 1993. Certainly Pearl Harbor would have been DEFCON 1.

In fact, the kind of failures which led to Pearl are probably part and parcel why the system was enacted.

I don't believe American citizens, as a general rule, are ever aware of the changing of levels.

It couldn't be hidden in the Honorverse for more reasons than one. I would imagine everyone has his/her own aircar on Manticore. Sooner or later, aircars will be grounded.

Even kids have to be aware of the meaning of different levels.

I travelled lots when I was young. It's an education not found in books. In the Midwest, Tornado Alley, families generally have an emergency shelter built underground.

I wonder if homes in the Honorverse have fallout shelters underground. A Case Zulu in the MBS should send everyone underground like rats scurrying.

I really wonder what level the planet would began to be affected. As opposed to space.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: DEFCON
Post by Somtaaw   » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:33 am

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cthia wrote:It couldn't be hidden in the Honorverse for more reasons than one. I would imagine everyone has his/her own aircar on Manticore. Sooner or later, aircars will be grounded.

Even kids have to be aware of the meaning of different levels.

I travelled lots when I was young. It's an education not found in books. In the Midwest, Tornado Alley, families generally have an emergency shelter built underground.

I wonder if homes in the Honorverse have fallout shelters underground. A Case Zulu in the MBS should send everyone underground like rats scurrying.

I really wonder what level the planet would began to be affected. As opposed to space.



Considering how deadly KEWs are, there's literally zero reason to ground civilian traffic during a space-side threat, unless you're one of those nutters who builds your military bases inside your cities.


The immediate reaction of the government is likely "don't bother the civilians. They can't help influence it in anyway, no reason to send them into a panic". Whether you ground their aircars or not, it's 100% not going to help your military forces already in space, and it's not going to help when you emergency launch your ground to space capable combat craft (whether fighters, pinnaces, assault shuttles, or Fifth Imperium cruisers & battleships).


Assuming your defense fleet can actually fight, by the time civilians get told an attack is/was happening, it should already be over and it's an announcement of victory. If you lose then you're surrendering, and only the dictators who rule with an iron fist are going to avoid announcing that surrender; they're too busy trying to find some way to get off planet and stay breathing to announce a planetary surrender.

Even if you have an Andre Warnecke lunatic in orbit, who clearly would violate Eridani Edict, a basement bunker is NOT going to help you at all. If the first KEW doesn't kill 90% or more of the population in a modern counter-grav tower city, then 2-3 KEWs certainly will kill nearly 100%, which again proves the futility in even trying to hide.


Proof of that is when Terekhov occupied Mobius. He used KEWs of his own and took out the ENTIRE tower with Yucel and the basement cowering System President Lombroso inside. One tower, and one specifically tactical KEW, and it mentioned Terekhov could have taken out something like half the city iirc had he wanted to. Whether you launch 1 small kew for every single tower, or launch 2-3 (maximum power) ones and you can wipe out entire (Grayson) cities who built more underground than they do above. This proves "hiding in a basement/shelter/bunker" simply does NOT work post-nuclear ICBM era.


A KEW is one of the most deadly weapons we can possibly conceive right now. Only truly matched by weaponized nanotechnology and blowing up planets/stars entirely and skipping the step of trying to wipe out the indigenous population one bunker at a time.
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Re: DEFCON
Post by cthia   » Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:15 pm

cthia
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cthia wrote:It couldn't be hidden in the Honorverse for more reasons than one. I would imagine everyone has his/her own aircar on Manticore. Sooner or later, aircars will be grounded.

Even kids have to be aware of the meaning of different levels.

I travelled lots when I was young. It's an education not found in books. In the Midwest, Tornado Alley, families generally have an emergency shelter built underground.

I wonder if homes in the Honorverse have fallout shelters underground. A Case Zulu in the MBS should send everyone underground like rats scurrying.

I really wonder what level the planet would began to be affected. As opposed to space.

Somtaaw wrote:Considering how deadly KEWs are, there's literally zero reason to ground civilian traffic during a space-side threat, unless you're one of those nutters who builds your military bases inside your cities.

Nice post!

I don't think it could be kept a secret. Too many spacers groundside are scurrying back to space. Once the news is out, airspace may become congested. When that happens, crew who are visiting groundside may find congested infrastructure impossible to traverse in a timely fashion. Or other unforeseen problems congested traffic may cause at such an inoportune time.

Somtaaw wrote:The immediate reaction of the government is likely "don't bother the civilians. They can't help influence it in anyway, no reason to send them into a panic". Whether you ground their aircars or not, it's 100% not going to help your military forces already in space, and it's not going to help when you emergency launch your ground to space capable combat craft (whether fighters, pinnaces, assault shuttles, or Fifth Imperium cruisers & battleships).

Again, congested airspace may hamper essential personnel from returning, or essential goods from getting into space. You don't want your best damn tactician held up because of traffic. Which should be off the rails during a Case Zulu.

Somtaaw wrote:Assuming your defense fleet can actually fight, by the time civilians get told an attack is/was happening, it should already be over and it's an announcement of victory. If you lose then you're surrendering, and only the dictators who rule with an iron fist are going to avoid announcing that surrender; they're too busy trying to find some way to get off planet and stay breathing to announce a planetary surrender.

Even if you have an Andre Warnecke lunatic in orbit, who clearly would violate Eridani Edict, a basement bunker is NOT going to help you at all. If the first KEW doesn't kill 90% or more of the population in a modern counter-grav tower city, then 2-3 KEWs certainly will kill nearly 100%, which again proves the futility in even trying to hide.


Proof of that is when Terekhov occupied Mobius. He used KEWs of his own and took out the ENTIRE tower with Yucel and the basement cowering System President Lombroso inside. One tower, and one specifically tactical KEW, and it mentioned Terekhov could have taken out something like half the city iirc had he wanted to. Whether you launch 1 small kew for every single tower, or launch 2-3 (maximum power) ones and you can wipe out entire (Grayson) cities who built more underground than they do above. This proves "hiding in a basement/shelter/bunker" simply does NOT work post-nuclear ICBM era.


A KEW is one of the most deadly weapons we can possibly conceive right now. Only truly matched by weaponized nanotechnology and blowing up planets/stars entirely and skipping the step of trying to wipe out the indigenous population one bunker at a time.


There may be citizens on planet who would hand you your head if you didn't warn them, like the Hauptmans. And Royalty who are in line for succession but are out and about on planet.

You may have to give people the benefit of the doubt anyways, even if a direct hit from a kew is unsurvivable.

I grew up around a military base. We lived inland, off base. But I visited on base quite a bit. I found out that school kids on base went thru the same crazy and frightening drill as we kids off post. During drills we would shelter under our desks, from what is an ICBM touching down. What the hell is hiding under a desk going to do for ground zero? I asked one of the base kid's father. Who was a Marine. He said, paraphrasing "We're counting on the Russian's aim and technology to be lacking. What if their missile hits just far enough away that SOME protection would save you?"

The mettle of the kind of people on Manticore may object to being treated like mindless cattle without a say-so.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: DEFCON
Post by doug941   » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:26 pm

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cthia wrote:The US, as I understand it, has been no higher than DEFCON 2, once, during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Of course, the system wasn't enacted until 1993. Certainly Pearl Harbor would have been DEFCON 1.

In fact, the kind of failures which led to Pearl are probably part and parcel why the system was enacted.

I don't believe American citizens, as a general rule, are ever aware of the changing of levels.

It couldn't be hidden in the Honorverse for more reasons than one. I would imagine everyone has his/her own aircar on Manticore. Sooner or later, aircars will be grounded.

Even kids have to be aware of the meaning of different levels.

I travelled lots when I was young. It's an education not found in books. In the Midwest, Tornado Alley, families generally have an emergency shelter built underground.

I wonder if homes in the Honorverse have fallout shelters underground. A Case Zulu in the MBS should send everyone underground like rats scurrying.

I really wonder what level the planet would began to be affected. As opposed to space.


Due to nervousness over Saddam's WMD, on Day 1 of Desert Storm the US was at DEFCON 2.
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