Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Social policy professor want battleships

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Social policy professor want battleships
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:07 am

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... hips-46277

...There seems to be no end of this "lets get some battleships" story. Some sociology professor from Sidney think battleships are imposing and cool, so he want the USN to build a few. They should scare China because they are so imposing, and they could cut underwater cables (I wonder, why you need battleship for that), and couldn't be disabled by being rammed by cargo ship (actually, they could be), and their armor would allow them to survive in high1threat areas (spoiler: it wouldn't)

"Every groundhog view himself as agronomist" (c)
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by Michael Everett   » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:54 pm

Michael Everett
Admiral

Posts: 2389
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:54 am
Location: Bristol, England

Sounds to me like the professor in question may be a fan of Kantai Collection, where WWII naval ships are reincarnated as girls to help fight monstrous versions known as Abyssals.

Not kidding.

And as you may expect, there are several fanworks based on the original game, including several stories, one of which crosses over with Harry Potter and at least two with Wildbow's Worm.

It's quite sad that with Carriers and missiles dominating the battlewaves*, Battleships are little more than floating targets these days, being slowly consigned to history along with the Galleon and the Junk.

*Battlefields sounds too land-based.
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
Animal Crossing Dreams at 6E00-00F5-2891
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:41 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

Michael Everett wrote:Sounds to me like the professor in question may be a fan of Kantai Collection, where WWII naval ships are reincarnated as girls to help fight monstrous versions known as Abyssals.

Not kidding.



It's quite sad that with Carriers and missiles dominating the battlewaves*, Battleships are little more than floating targets these days, being slowly consigned to history along with the Galleon and the Junk.


The missiles are just too smart - always were too smart - to defend against them by just primitive armor. Even 1940s missiles already could hit the decks or underwater parts, avoiding entirely mighty armored sides.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by The E   » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:07 pm

The E
Admiral

Posts: 2237
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 12:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

Dilandu wrote:...There seems to be no end of this "lets get some battleships" story. Some sociology professor from Sidney think battleships are imposing and cool, so he want the USN to build a few. They should scare China because they are so imposing, and they could cut underwater cables (I wonder, why you need battleship for that), and couldn't be disabled by being rammed by cargo ship (actually, they could be), and their armor would allow them to survive in high1threat areas (spoiler: it wouldn't)


The debate around big-gun battleships will never end. Someone will always find arguments to support the notion that the concept isn't dead yet.

One argument I heard recently (via the Drachinifel youtube channel; if you don't know him, Drach is a naval historian. His channel is specialized to telling the stories of individual ships or ship classes, or telling the stories of notable battles) is that the fight of missiles vs countermeasures is getting harder and harder for the missiles to win. If laser-based CIWS can be made to work, and work better than the current gen of projectile-based installations, then a big-gun ship can penetrate a defensive fire screen much more readily (and much more cheaply!) than a missile salvo can.
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by Annachie   » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:27 pm

Annachie
Admiral

Posts: 2710
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:36 pm

Dale Brown's Silver Tower has an interesting take on Battleship use.
Two actually.

Not exactly realistic, but interesting none the less.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by Lord Skimper   » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:18 pm

Lord Skimper
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1735
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Calgary, Nova, Gryphon.

Pocket battleships with 5" smoothbore guns would be great. Shells, Armour piercing sabots and songster type missiles. Small fast powerful.
________________________________________
Just don't ask what is in the protein bars.
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by Daryl   » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:38 pm

Daryl
Admiral

Posts: 2870
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

Aeronautical engineers design weapons systems, naval engineers design targets.
Lord Skimper wrote:Pocket battleships with 5" smoothbore guns would be great. Shells, Armour piercing sabots and songster type missiles. Small fast powerful.
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by Castenea   » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:59 pm

Castenea
Captain of the List

Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:21 pm
Location: MD

Lord Skimper wrote:Pocket battleships with 5" smoothbore guns would be great. Shells, Armour piercing sabots and songster type missiles. Small fast powerful.

NO. Modern armored cruiser optimized with for shore support. Two or four triple turrets with the 155mm Smooth-bore from the M1 Abrams. Enough armor to protect the vitals and crew battle stations from counter battery fire up to MLRS batteries. 30+ Knot top speed, room for good AAA suite and Land attack cruise missiles.

A battleship does not give enough improvement until you can equip it with energy hogs like Electromagnetic rail guns, 6-10 PDLCs instead of CIWS and then the fact it has room for a very large sensor suite is simply gravy. The big downside to the battle wagons was the size of the crews and how much it cost to pay and feed them. Until there is a clear advantage to having a bigger ship as opposed to similar numbers of crew on smaller ships they will not be built.
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:30 pm

TFLYTSNBN
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1519
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

Dilandu wrote:https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/china-and-north-koreas-worst-fear-us-navy-starts-building-new-battleships-46277

...There seems to be no end of this "lets get some battleships" story. Some sociology professor from Sidney think battleships are imposing and cool, so he want the USN to build a few. They should scare China because they are so imposing, and they could cut underwater cables (I wonder, why you need battleship for that), and couldn't be disabled by being rammed by cargo ship (actually, they could be), and their armor would allow them to survive in high1threat areas (spoiler: it wouldn't)

"Every groundhog view himself as agronomist" (c)



The guy is obviously no expert on naval warfare.

The US already has an excellent platform for attacking undersea communications. It is a submarine.

There is a cogent argument for an intermediate size ship (25,000 tons) with a hybrid nuclear/gas turbine integrated electric power system for propulsion and electronics. I seem to recall the Soviet Union building something similar, the Kirov.
Top
Re: Social policy professor want battleships
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:25 am

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
There is a cogent argument for an intermediate size ship (25,000 tons) with a hybrid nuclear/gas turbine integrated electric power system for propulsion and electronics. I seem to recall the Soviet Union building something similar, the Kirov.


It wasn't exactly what Navy wanted. The initial idea was to have two nuclear-powered ships on the same (roughly 7000 ton) hull: the large anti-submarine ship with helicopters and long-range ASuW missiles, and missile cruiser with long-range SAM and heavy ASM's. The missile cruiser were supposed to protect a pair of anti-submarine ships, working as hunting group in Atlantic and Pacific (hense nuclear power)

But problem was, that it was Party Central Committe who decided what wepon should be produced, not military. And essentially someone decided that it would be better to have "universal" ship, that could do both. So, the nuclear anti-submarine ship project was abandoned, and instead ASuW weapon was placed on cruiser. Then there were concerns about the reliability of next-generation reactors, so the Party ordered a new cruiser to have a backup boilers & oil supply. Essentially, all this changes and some new weapon development resulted in oversized ship, powerful and impressive, but too costly for mass production.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top

Return to Free-Range Topics...