Sustainability vs Survivalist

A book named "Fresh Food from small spaces" is worthy reading. The author lives in an apartment and supplies a more food for himself than you would think.


In any crisis situation, food is worth more than money, gold, or guns combined.
The skill to grow and produce food is a life skill that makes any person who possesses it a very desirable ally.
Someone that is protected by the masses who have no clue how to feed themselves.

DDHv wrote:A book named "Fresh Food from small spaces" is worthy reading. The author lives in an apartment and supplies a more food for himself than you would think.

This sort of thing is useful all the time in the regular world. Food you grow yourself is the freshest there is and you know what was applied to it, if anything. Even USDA Organic foods can have pesticides on them. Things like rotenone are not good for you, even though they are allowed on organic.

Things that taste especially wonderful grown at home; Tomatoes, green beans, summer squash, potatoes .. potatoes can be grown in a container. There is nothing like fresh new potatoes Potatoes can also be autumn planted from your own crop to be harvested the next autumn. This is in the ground, probably not in a pot. Thus you always have a protected supply of potatoes in the ground for this year or next year's crop.

Homegrown tomatoes will ruin you for the store ones. The key is the store ones are refrigerated which ruins the flavors.

We store the potato crop in closed cardboard boxes in a cool room. Do not wash them before storing. They keep better that way. Separate any you stuck with the harvest fork to use first. They need cool and dark. Coming on spring the remaining ones will sprout. Leave them be and plant them out when it gets warm enough, being careful not to break the shoots.

You can grow pole beans in a container, with long poles, say, bamboo, in a teepee to support the vines. You get more beans per plant from pole beans. I recommend Rattlesnake, Goldmarie, Blue Lake, Kentucky Wonder, Fortrex, Violetto. remember to get a little packet of innoculant. It makes a big difference in your yield. I suppose if you have a balcony rail they'd be happy twining around it. Snap peas and snow peas also. Super Sugar Snap and Mammoth Melting Snow Pea are my recommends for them. Both are tall plants, like pole beans. For regular peas, Alderman aka Tall Telephone is excellent. The flavor of all of these sorts is wonderful. One container on a balcony could give you plenty of snap or snow peas or shelling peas, which are amazingly sweet raw and fresh from the pods. Green candy.

Those hoop things supposedly made for tomatoes --hah a tomato plant would like to be 8 feet tall unless it is a 'determinate' variety and those are short and do not need a support --- anyway those hoop things are excellent for summer squash or zucchini support.

A not so well known one. Plant radishes and let them bolt and flower, then as the seed pods get big enough, eat them, either raw or stir fried. Young radish pods taste like radishes without getting over hot. One radish plant will make one root or many dozens of pods, which are delicious, crisp and tangy. As they start getting woody let them ripen. save the seed and replant. A blooming radish gets a couple feet tall or more and that wide. Flowers are white or pale lavender or pink. They're pretty plants in bloom and you get lots of those yummy pods. Works with any kind of radish, though there is one bred specifically for this, called Rattail. We just use regular ones like Icicle or Cherry Belle. Icicle, btw, is a miniature Daikon type radish for those who like daikons but the usual ones are too big for your needs. It would also be a lot easier to grow Icicle in a pot than regular daikons like April Cross, which get huge.

I have been gardening for nearly 60 years, since I was a little kid, and so has Mr Northstar. I completely recommend it on any scale you can manage, even if it is one tomato in a pot, more is better if you have the space and inclination. The reward is delicious eats.

For those who wish to escape from an urban area your best bet is to have a motorcycle preferably a dirt bike. They can go so many places cars cannot. They get very good mpg and you can push them. A back pack with supplies and tires for conditions. Extra gas in a jerry can or a travel trailer if you need more stuff. You don't need a fast bike just a 125cc will get you out of town. Two can ride on a bike. Three or more with a side car although that will limit your route options.

While I'm not the biker or bikey type. Too dangerous most of the time it is in emergency times the best option. It forces you to pack light, plan for light travel and gets you through traffic and urban jams faster and better than any other travel options. Plan ahead by taking lessons on how to ride and if you never use it a 125cc bike is cheap to buy and maintain. Just put it with your grab and go pack and be ready to grab and go.

A tent, food you like and can eat, money, clothes and a good knife and depending where you are maybe a firearm or bow. Medications things like that. Spare smart phone / phablet and a solar recharger, plus a multi band and weather radio. Med kit repair kit spares kit and water. Spare shoes new not old are good too. Rope candles and a fire starter. Not 100 candles just two or three. For clothes coveralls are universal and if you only have limited room always come in handy. If you need to carry one luxury take a plastic bottle of whiskey, you can always use it for many purposes lighting fires, disinfectant, and is very tradeable. Duct tape also helps. A survival kit if going into bush is also good. Plus a survival book or survival playing cards. If your not going be able to return take gold and silver with you. Plus family pictures....

If you will be taking a larger vehicle put the bike in or on it or if you can't take a motorcycle at least take a bicycle.

When you network for a survival team make sure you have a nurse or medic or even better a doctor. Don't have everyone next door but arrange a group that spread out enough that if something happens in your neck of the woods you can go to or meet up at the other persons place. Leave a message at your place for anyone who may show up saying, even in code, where you have gone assuming you are not on the lamb.

If you leave a cache make sure every puts there cache hidden in the same place. Like buried in the same rough place in each persons backyard. Ie: 10 paces strait back from the stage left corner. 3 feet down.

If you don't have or want to use friends plan ahead with a locker or storage unit. Even a safe deposit box works. Bit Jason Bourne-ish but it works.

Planning ahead is more than escaping it is having somewhere to go.

Old Irish joke - when a tourist asked an old codger in Dublin how to get to a spot in rural Ireland the response was, "If I wanted to go there I wouldn't start from here".

Each to their own, but if you are actually concerned about surviving an apocalypse you shouldn't be living in a big city, or even living in suburbia in a smaller one.

I personally don't expect a tidal wave of zombies or an asteroid to spoil my future, however just by lifestyle choice I'm already on a few acres on the outside of a smallish city. I also agree totally with Northstar that certain lifestyles provide you with survival skills like gardening, hunting, and making do.

A suggestion I'd add to the survival pack is any medication you need for chronic conditions like blood pressure. Eventually living on what is too slow to escape will probably fix your blood pressure over time.

Go and read David Brin's Postman, don't bother with the movie. It gives a rather good example about how the survivalist mentality is the cause for the chaos after the fall, if you don't want to bother to read...

The main point David Brin brings across is that when the government collapses *no matter how it does*. It will be the survivalists who forget that not everyone is out for their own, and that those who hoard weapons and expect it will be the problem.

They will forget the idea of helping the fellow man and become paranoid and kill on impulse. It doesn't matter if the new comer is a threat or not, the survivalists will fall on xenophobia, and well it is hard to disagree with.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:Go and read David Brin's Postman, don't bother with the movie. It gives a rather good example about how the survivalist mentality is the cause for the chaos after the fall, if you don't want to bother to read...

The main point David Brin brings across is that when the government collapses *no matter how it does*. It will be the survivalists who forget that not everyone is out for their own, and that those who hoard weapons and expect it will be the problem.

They will forget the idea of helping their fellow man and become paranoid and kill on impulse. It doesn't matter if the new comer is a threat or not, the survivalists will fall on xenophobia, and well it is hard to disagree with.

He has a good point, actually. Not all or even most, certainly, but a certain segment of the survivalist and/or prepper crowd are already fairly afraid of other people. That is what is motivating them even now. An actual chaotic event, of whatever sort, could do a number on those folks. Some could go on 'shoot first' fear mode. And some, even more unfortunately, could go on 'Gee no one to stop me now' and their inner predator comes out.

You see this even in some apocalyptic fiction wherein the author spends a creepy amount of time imagining things from the bad guy's point of view and wallowing in doing rape and mayhem. My opinion is those authors are mentally ill and I stop reading and never buy another of their books again. I am always far more interested in how regular people cope with trouble and overcome it to rebuild. That interests me. Wallowing in rape and mayhem is just disgusting. Would some folks do that in a chaotic mess? Probably, but there is no need for authors to detail it from the bad guy's POV. That stinks of nasty wish fulfillment. eh.

I suppose I am something of just an old fashioned sort of self sufficient person cum a bit of weather prep. Bad weather happens. Getting a nasty bug happens. Expecting the government to come hold your hand in a bad crisis is... not realistic.

I think we all have a personal responsibility to be able to take care of ourselves for a while. I also think that is what the situation will be whether we are able or not. Look at big ice storms or whatever. You are pretty on your own. That's just the way it is. So, I do not ever want to be one of those idiots running crazy in the grocery store as a big storm bears down on where I live. Just do not want to be them.

You do not want to be them, either. Really, you do not.

For home growing the upsidedown planters are a good start. Not just for tomatoes. Pea pods, strawberries (any kind of small bush berry) Grapes and the like. If you do use such a thing the key is not to plant them all at the same time. You want them to be growing in different stages to last year round rather than all at the same time.

Professional made ones have a water reservoir and and a capillary water feeder. Pretty much fill and forget for a while. In a off the grid situation one should also have a rain barrel and a compost pile or container.

Miracle grow or Gibberellic acid. It will help start and maximise your yield

Upside down planters low to the ground can also be used for Marrows Pumpkins and melons.

Finally if you are brave enough keeping bees also makes lots of sense. They pollinate crops and flowers and you get honey as well. In a rural setting they help dissuade city folk and keep spiders and other bugs away.

Fruit trees, apple crab apple or berry bushed (large) like the Saskatoon or June Berry are also great.

Finally don't forget mushrooms. As long as you know you have the edible kind your ok.

Vices

Alcohol Wine Beer all these things are important to have or trade. Being able to make your own is also important from bringing joy to the down trodden to medical or even using them as fuels.

Drugs, the kind that are legal or easy to make. Sure the Meth lab will be popping up everywhere as long as the bulk cold medicine holds out. But magic Mushrooms, Marijuana where legal and other options are all good thing to have or trade. Even tobacco which can be dried and rolled into cigars is a great thing to have when it all goes to pot. Being able to grow and make your own doubly so. (Cigars are really easy to make)

as for reloading or black power it helps to know how and have the tools. Dyes lathes and files are all important things to have. although in an urban centre a 3D printer would also work.

Firearms.

You have options depending where you live and local laws. Anything from a Baseball bat, knife to a spear gun, Air guns and Sling Shots, Firearms (guns) to vehicles with vehicle mounted weapons. Grenade launchers, flame throwers, and bigger guns. Even a flare gun or toy gun can make a difference.

I have a friend with a Chieftain MBT. Other friends in the military collectors clubs with Jeeps Real Hummers, APC's IFV's etc... Local Surplus store has a lot full of MBT APC and various others. Our Museum of the Regiments (really good museum has several Shermans M113 Centurians and some Russian Iraqi T55 T62 and T72's. Plus a girder from The World Trade centre.

While it is unlikely anyone here is going to be driving around in a tank; one has to think in a zombie apocalypse nothing could be better. What is a zombie going to do? Remember the M60 joyride in San Diego? What chance would a zombie have?

Re protein bars... I make my own version, well, I keep the stuff on hand to make it and make it when needed. Have since the kids were still little kids. Anyway, you need GrapeNuts cereal, peanut butter and non-instant dry milk for the most basic. Combine until you have the texture you like. Roll it into balls or make bars and wrap in waxed paper or put in container, whatever. This is not for long term once put together, though the ingredients store very well separately. Things you can add, cocoa or carob powder, any dried fruit or nuts chopped or dry oatmeal -or any flaked hot cereal type. You can roll the balls or bars in cocoa, carob or more GrapeNuts or oatmeal or powdered milk, or powdered sugar if you want to go sweeter. This mixture is actually quite tasty and one heck of a lot better than the commercial stuff. Used to be called 'Gorp'. I do not know if that name is still in use.

My protein bars was a joke for the use of recycling on a Honorverse ship.

Your gorp wouldn't appeal to gluten intolerant lactose intolerant and unable to taste anything sweet me!

It is funny without being sweet some things like ice cream are gross while others like chocolate bars are great. Fruit still tastes like fruit, sugar tastes like sugar but just isn't sweet. It is really bizarre and crunchy.