The Duckk'ing of the GOD EXISTS thread

Michael Everett wrote:Simple rule suggestion.
First one to resort to actual insults loses.
Me and my friends used to have huge arguments, but with this rule in place, we were forced to listen to the other one in order to blow holes in their logic since if we went down the "No, you idiot" path, we would lose instantly.
It certainly livened things up nicely.

I will gladly accept those rules. If as I suspect I might at some time in the future resort to insults or even rhetorical pejoratives, I give leave to any and all posters to call me on it.

Michael Everett wrote:Simple rule suggestion.
First one to resort to actual insults loses.
Me and my friends used to have huge arguments, but with this rule in place, we were forced to listen to the other one in order to blow holes in their logic since if we went down the "No, you idiot" path, we would lose instantly.
It certainly livened things up nicely.

The trick is agreeing on what constitutes an insult. Sure there's the clear cut ones... "You moron"...

But I've been on forums where I've had posts deleted for calling someone's argument hypocritical because it was deemed a "personal attack" despite there being nothing personal about it.

If someone posts something clearly dishonest is calling them on it an insult because they can declare you called them a liar?

Etc...

We've had fights between Cristian denominations, enough that David AKA runsforcellery commented:



The quote found here: http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3292&p=75513#p75513 down a bit.

Here's another quip "God gave man two ears and one mouth as a subtle hint he should spend twice as much time listening as talking." Would that I could follow it

Poker

The god I believe in, if I can even use those two terms, poked a hole into the universe letting in a bunch of energy and said work the rest out for yourselves.

Which is kinda what is being proposed here. Here's the thread, lets work out our own limits.

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pokermind wrote:Here's another quip "God gave man two ears and one mouth as a subtle hint he should spend twice as much time listening as talking."
Poker

I think that's actually a Hindu proverb.

All religions (and philosophies, and schools of thought) have their own repertoire of clever proverbs.
Then again, there's always a lot of overlap among them...

Here's my adaptation of the proverb "Evolution gave man two ears and a single mouth because listening to the environment was more important to survival than making noises with the mouth"

I am still reeling from the Duckking of the GOD EXISTS thread. There are those who called for its closing. For what purpose? Because they don't believe in religion? Because they don't believe in a God? Don't believe in other's rights in that matter? It is anyone's right to not believe or not to participate. It is also the right of others to believe in God AND to discuss it!

At no point did anyone lose the right of choice to steer clear of the thread. Yet there were those who wanted it killed. Again, why? It surely was not because anyone who does believe in God was rude to you or anyone else in the thread. On the contrary, I am certain that believers felt it was their [Christian] duty as well as common decency to be respectful - and they were. And great patience was echoed. Everyone who was rude was a non-believer. Not every non-believer was rude. But every "rude" was a non-believer. Why is that?

Moreover, why would Duckk so quickly move to kill a thread simply because a few demanded it? The thread didn't break any forum rules. Only they who were the 'poster child(s)' of rudeness wanted it closed. The moderator didn't even try moderating first. I've seen many more threads where exchanges were deplorable, even moreso. And the moderator tried moderating first. Again, why not the GOD EXISTS thread? There was some disrespect, yes. But nothing that broke any forum rules that warranted closing. I didn't read in any forum rules that a thread could be closed because someone reported it simply as a topic that they didn't like. If you don't like a topic, just stay out of it, as many has opted to do regarding the Politics subforum. As I do regarding the Politics subforum. You mean to tell me, that a thread can be closed, SIMPLY because a buddy texts a buddy who texts a buddy and says, "lets ask that this thread be closed?"

I never asked for the "Captured Solly Fleet" thread to be closed although I didn't see the point. Even diehard posters within the thread who participated for quite some time were offering suggestions to hang the next person to post there. And several posters had to be moderated several times. I read the thread, though infrequently. I even posted early on "send the junk to the breakers to reclaim resources." After all, RFC pretty much said it was worthless junk. THE AUTHOR SAID IT! Yet the discussion raged on???

I supported their right to do so. So did the moderator, it seems.

Yet, in my exchange with Duckk regarding the GOD EXISTS thread part of his response...

Locking your topic was not censure of religious discussion in Free Range, just that that one discussion thread had gotten to the point where it was no longer worth keeping open.

Worth keeping open? I never read anywhere in the Forum Rules anything regarding this thing called 'worth.' Or any attempt to explain what is meant by this - intangible. Did I miss it? Does the Captured Solly Junk thread have worth? Even though it can attain nothing but the sake of... discussion - since RFC says it's worthless junk? Rhetorically, I ask "What is this arbitrary abstract value of a thread?" Truthfully, what I read was "It isn't worth the constant trouble of me having to tell those who hate Christians and their rights to back off."

The thread had reached 535 posts and was still surging. There were times I logged on and two-thirds or more of the members logged on were in that thread. Over 500 posts is a respectable number of responses even for a main forum thread! I have no doubt that it would have become amongst the most prolific threads. It already is!

I lost respect for Duckk, and for many posters in that thread. Even moreso for Americans that are too blind and wrapped up in hate to see the truth of what is happening in their own country in front of their own eyes, with their support!

My father taught all of his kids...

Son, it is not true that a man has to earn your respect. Every man deserves respect right from the start. What a man has to earn, is your continued respect.

I lost the ability to continue respect for many. Hence, my participation on this forum. There is not even once that I disrespected anyone on this forum and failed to apologise. Even when it was not my apology that was warranted. In lieu of consistency, decency and common respect, I apologise if any of my posts offends you. I do not apologise for my beliefs.

And several who wished it closed aren't even Americans. And the Americans just let it happen. They jumped on the bandwagon like those of the mindless. Don't you see what is happening to your country? Don't you care? Is someone's religious beliefs and the right to discuss it something that you've taken up a personal pledge to destroy? Could you not have spoken up for the right to discuss it? Or do you mindlessly allow others to invade your country and tell it that America should no longer be allowed to worship or discuss religion? That is NOT the democracy that I came to love.

America is supposed to be the one place a concientious individual can practice and discuss one's religious beliefs without persecution. It is one of the inherent rights of the US Constitution. Citizens of England fled its shores in search of lands where they could be free to worship without persecution. That was nearly five centuries ago.

Recently in the news the 9 murdered in a South Carolina church is frightening. These were true Christian people. True Christians because they all forgave the senseless murders of the gunman. NONE had anything but compassion for the gunman. Even the families! It brings tears to my eyes, that level of compassion. That is the hallmark of a true Christian. Even the gunman said that "they were nice to me." For all mindlessly still denying the existence or definition of true Christians, There you go!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /28911595/

This senseless act has now led to the banning of the confederate flag. I am sad. Many are outraged but there are repercussions from hate and hate crimes.

It is happening all over America throughout many decades from America's history and it continues at an alarming rate.

Since the beginning of the year, 27 black churches have been burned down in the rural South. And an equal number of black churches have burned down in the past five years, according to the Justice Department.
"When you burn our churches, you are not only burning our house of worship," said the Rev. Ronald Sams, pastor of Massie Zion Baptist Church in Louisville, Ky. He grew up in rural Alabama, one of the areas most victimized by the recent arson attacks.
"The church is the core of our community," he said.
"In small towns, losing your church means more than losing your place of worship," said historian Taylor Branch, who has written extensively about the civil rights movement. "It is the newspaper, the insurance company, the dance hall and the Elks Lodge all rolled into a church."
Branch said that in the past, churches have been burned or bombed because they were the staging ground for efforts to win equal rights, better wages or schools. But many of the targeted churches rarely organized anything more than a church supper.
"These churches are being burned without any cause," he said. "They are [burning] these churches for existing."

One only has to search the internet for the mountain of evidence. Much of it is steeped in ignorance and racism. We as Americans must not allow it to happen regardless of the reasons.

In the God Exists thread I never got a chance to state that not one presidential candidate has ever openly claimed to be an atheist or a non-believer. And every would-be American presidential candidate knows he would not have a snowball's chance in hell of being elected if he did.

Many Christians in this country believe that America became great because it enjoyed favor with God.

"In God We Trust" is printed on American currency.

The value and respect for the American dollar is waning. Perhaps as a symptom of our waning respect for HE who made us great.


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Cthia, I fully support the Duckk'ing because the thread had degenerated into two camps shouting at each other, but neither was listening. I'd already dropped out because it was obvious that nothing I said was being heard. Best of luck to you with your certainty of belief. It must be a great comfort to know that you will not only live forever, but be in the VIP seats. I'm jealous, but along with Dylan Thomas will have to be content with "Railing against the coming of the night".

Sex,religion, and politics all topics to be avoided in public discourse.

Daryl wrote:Cthia, I fully support the Duckk'ing because the thread had degenerated into two camps shouting at each other, but neither was listening. I'd already dropped out because it was obvious that nothing I said was being heard. Best of luck to you with your certainty of belief. It must be a great comfort to know that you will not only live forever, but be in the VIP seats. I'm jealous, but along with Dylan Thomas will have to be content with "Railing against the coming of the night".

Sex,religion, and politics all topics to be avoided in public discourse.

Shouting? Just how is that accomplished with written words? I do know that the use of capitals denote SHOUTING. I don't recall a great deal of capitals being used.

If you are referring to disagreements - people entrenched in their beliefs, then yes. That is the nature of religion and politics, but is NO reason to kill the thread to those who DID wish to discuss it. Besides, why didn't - indeed why couldn't, you just abstain from participating? Why would you support its closing?

And again, are you American? AS an American, I support the right to worship and discuss religion. That right is inherent in American ideals. If you are NOT American, I don't expect you to understand. If you are American, it saddens me.

I guess many Americans just never really knew what being an American truly means - and the victories of battles fought and why the blood ran so red.

And many still don't understand. Sad.

Chita when the two sides of an argument begin personal attacks it becomes flaming, and flaming is a no no here. I've had threads locked when they have became too contentious. In these forums the Duckk is the one who decides this, on the whole he allows things to go on until they get beyond defending a position and into personal attacks, at that point the thread snipers come out.

Faith in God is faith while Logically you cannot prove a negative IE God does not Exist, however the non believers can point out you cannot prove the Tooth Ferrie[? sp] does not exist either. Thus neither side can prove the existence or non existence of God to the other. One either has faith or one does not. I remember the old saw "Never argue religion or politics because neither side can prove a d@#$% thing." Both are matters of Faith or lack thereof.

The early church had this problem read Romans 14 and 15 for St. Paul on the subject of tolerance, and bring those of small faith to God. The difference between Greek and Roman Christian churches and the Jewish Christian churches was great. Also contains the "Judge not least ye be judged," quote. IMHO pity the unbeliever rather than rebuke them, that is the Christ like thing.

Poker

By and large: Unless someone is backed into a corner, they will never evaluate morality and where it ultimately comes from. Out of this evaluation comes ones religion and politics. People are shallow(In case you missed it, People is plural; includes me and you). They simply do not want to be bothered. They are lazy. Mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

Thinking through ones own held beliefs and their implications requires work. Lots of work individually before one even thinks about reaching out externally. By doing so, they are admitting they could be wrong, how they grew up is wrong, their family and friends are wrong, potentially making them alone.

Saving "face" is not an oriental condition. Rather it is a human one. Such discussions/conversion to "your" side, will never happen on an online forum as it by and large requires someone to be downtrodden with lots of time on their hands who are actually willing to evaluate their own positions and beliefs.

Good Luck. Frankly I will only go into such discussions on a 1 on 1 basis as any other venue is a complete and utter waste of time. Ego kicks in big time. No one likes being proven wrong, admitting wrong, and NEVER in front of anyone else even if they are a close friend.