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Great victory day

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Re: Great victory day
Post by HB of CJ   » Thu May 14, 2015 2:44 am

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Lindberg was less conflicted than Mr Ford? His Lockheed Electra medium twin engine airplane he used to tour over about the entire complete nation of Germany had a couple, (three?) secret cameras concealed in the belly.

Seems they used up a bunch of good film. Had the Nazies found out what he was doing, things would have been very nasty. Lindberg did have many bad traits. Lucky for us he was talked into photo spying for the USA ... while touring?

At this time we, (the USA) had no idea what Germmany had on the ground. His bravery taking all of those air photos greatly helped with our war planning. Now we have been at peace for a long time. Can we keep it? HB of CJ (old coot)
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Re: Great victory day
Post by Daryl   » Thu May 14, 2015 3:42 am

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Anti-Semitism was rife in Europe for centuries and still strong in the 1920s and 1930s. Hitler didn't gain power in a vacuum, he skillfully blended many popular memes in his drive to power, and ignorant hatred of Jews was one lever.
A significant number of "Elites" in both the UK and US had similar views to Hitler and sympathized with his agenda. Thus if we had managed to gain common ground with him, and avoid WW2, I imagine the world would be a much nastier and repressive place now than it is.

I'm now in my mid 60s and have great satisfaction in noting that many of the issues I pushed in my early 20s; like indigenous, women, and gay rights; and environmental issues are now mainstream. Wouldn't have been possible under fascism.
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Re: If Hitler had ... re: Great victory day
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Thu May 14, 2015 1:35 pm

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Well, WH, that H. Ford might have been The Biggest
Anti-Semite in America, certainly one of the biggest.
He paid to reprint the famous forgery "Protocols Of
The Elders Of Zion" here.

Had Hitler embraced us Jews,
Ford would have quarreled with him!

Lindbergh was a different story.
Old Coot told part of it after your post.

Hmm ... you do realize, Harold, don't you,
that I meant "embraced us Jews" not "us Americans?"

Jewish Map-addict, soo proud of himself for
having resisted the temptation to write
"Harold replied weirdly."

Weird Harold wrote:at bottom.

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:If Hitler had embraced us,
(if he'd been able to,)
Then we would have set his morality straight.


Weird Harold replied:
I'm not so sure about that. many Americans,
including Henry Ford and (Charles) Lindberg,
were advocates of Hitler and severely conflicted
when Germany declared war after Pearl Harbor --
they were all in favor of crushing the "Yellow
Peril" in the Pacific, but thought we were
on the wrong side in Europe.
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Re: Great victory day
Post by MAD-4A   » Sat May 16, 2015 10:21 pm

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Daryl wrote:Anti-Semitism was rife in Europe for centuries and still strong in the 1920s and 1930s. Hitler didn't gain power in a vacuum, he skillfully blended many popular memes in his drive to power, and ignorant hatred of Jews was one lever.
A significant number of "Elites" in both the UK and US had similar views to Hitler and sympathized with his agenda. Thus if we had managed to gain common ground with him, and avoid WW2, I imagine the world would be a much nastier and repressive place now than it is.
Correct, no-one rules in a vacuum. Especially after WWI when German Jews were made scapegoats for loosing, along with Slavs & Gypsies. All of whom were rounded up and sent, as were Gays & Lesbians. The Jews received the press but were not alone (note: I say this as a Christian Pro-Semite). I have always thought that; if Hitler had put his racism aside (or been replaced) and instead of persecuting the Jews, instead, stated an intention to remove all Jews from Europe by reestablishing Israel (don't know how #2 would have reacted to that, but...) the British would have faced a Million-man "Africa Corp", & #2 wouldn't have had a say in it.
-
Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Great victory day
Post by HB of CJ   » Sun May 17, 2015 3:39 pm

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The German side of my family MAY be Jewish. The ones still around that is. In about 1870 or so during one of the many wars, about 100 of my Germany family all put money together and got about 10 or so of their selves out of Germany all the way to Wisconsin, (sp?) northern central USA.

We then dropped off the "Von" and Americanized the last name. We became Americans. My great grandfather moved to SW Virginia to work on the Railroad. I was born in Roanoke Virginia. Only about one out of 100 Germans were Jewish. We are lucky Hitler did not embrace them.

Had he done so and if the Jewish people had stayed in Germany and had embraced the Nazies, then things might have been totally different in WW2. I for one find it very non comfy knowing history is such a fickle thing. It could have turned out many different ways and all of them bad.

HB of CJ (old coot) now you know a little bit even more.
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Re: Great victory day
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Mon May 18, 2015 2:02 am

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Let's get the thread back to the remembrance of VE-day.

That is an important shared historical event throughout Europe with huge sacrifices having been made by all - but especially the Soviet Union which should not be forgotten.

With East-Weast relations strained as they are right now it is particularly important to find common ground and get back into a mindset of cooperation.
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Re: Great victory day
Post by HB of CJ   » Tue May 19, 2015 1:12 am

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There can be no cooperation with Russia. Very dangerous to do so. Do they still have ICBM nukes pointed at us? The only thing Russia understands is strength. Lots of times cooperation dilutes that.

Yes Russia went through over 20 million folks getting through WW2. Probably fewer than the numbers of their own people in various Socialist States killed off or starved by Stalin himself.

Cooperaton? No way. Just me. HB of CJ (old coot)
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Re: Great victory day
Post by pokermind   » Tue May 19, 2015 11:26 am

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HB of CJ, we may be able to cooperate extremist Islam is an enemy of both.

Poker
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: Great victory day
Post by Dilandu   » Wed May 20, 2015 3:08 am

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HB of CJ wrote:There can be no cooperation with Russia. Very dangerous to do so. Do they still have ICBM nukes pointed at us? The only thing Russia understands is strength. Lots of times cooperation dilutes that.


And you have ICBM, aimed on us. ;) Also, you have overwhelming naval superiority, most powerfull air forces and most modern army in the world, that you used to put nations that you didn't like in ruins. ;) The "support of democracy" in Iraq, Lybia and Syria was really impressive; now the peoples of this countries have even less democracy and civil rights that before, a lot of them killed in fightings, starved or fled their homes.

Imperialism is still imperialism, whether it is Russian or American. "We want something that your nation obtain, and because we have superior firepower, you must either submit or face the "support of democracy"/"protection of the peoples"" :D

Yes Russia went through over 20 million folks getting through WW2. Probably fewer than the numbers of their own people in various Socialist States killed off or starved by Stalin himself.


Yeah, yeah, hundreds of billions of trillions, personally killed by Stalin. The old russian joke. Go well with "a hundred millions raped german schoolgirls in 1945"; actually, the Soviet Army have a very brutal penalty for such actions, and no officer, no comissars could avoid it. As Stalin said - "Hitlers come and go, but the German peoples stand; we need them as friends, not slaves".
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Great victory day
Post by Dilandu   » Wed May 20, 2015 3:09 am

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pokermind wrote:HB of CJ, we may be able to cooperate
Poker


Well, we cooperated well during all Cold War. It wasn't go hot, isn't it? 8-)

The Russia is not the global problem for USA. We simply didn't have neither resources, neither population, neither even ideology to restart the global-scale empire ever soon; probably not even in this half of century.

The main US problem is China, that HAVE the resources, population and ideology to challenge the US molitary and economical superiority.

It's all the old UK-France and UK-Russia relations. The were enemies for centuries, before the advent of German Empire in late XIX century forced them to work togehter against common problem. Currently, Russia isn't blocked with either side of US-China relations; but for both sides, Russia is invaluable ally due to its strategic locations and still-impressive military power.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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