A Fellow Writer

Dave, I am not going to be one who shamelessly uses another writer's website to promote myself. But do have some comments that as an unpublished writer that I smile at:
1. In today's writing world it is nice to have some clout as to what and how you write. Here I am speaking about the suggestion that you keep your characters, named especially, to seven or less. This has been passed on to me by many including instructors at conferences.
2. The length of a book can be no less than 80,000 words and no more than 110,000 words. If shorter make it longer, and if beyond the 110,000 either make it two books or edit material out.

Of course there are other examples. I find that in at least both of these examples that you are ignoring the conventional wisdom which is being both taught and passed on, and is truthfully, fine by me, as I have read both the Honor series and the Safehold series and have enjoyed them tremendously.

Lastly at this time, I should mention that I am older than you, and worked a career from which I have retired. Since retiring I have completed 3 manuscripts with the majority of the editing out of the way, and within 20,000 words of finishing a 4th. I state this to show that like many, I am not a want-to-be writer but actually do have manuscripts that are in the editing stage. And please continue to produce your works as they are quite enjoyable. I have a couple of comments that I will probably post later in your Safehold forum. But wanted to use this to at least make contact with you personally, or at least as close as one can. And finally by not mentioning who I am or even what I write I hope to keep that self promotion out. Thank you

Loner wrote:Dave, I am not going to be one who shamelessly uses another writer's website to promote myself. But do have some comments that as an unpublished writer that I smile at:
1. In today's writing world it is nice to have some clout as to what and how you write. Here I am speaking about the suggestion that you keep your characters, named especially, to seven or less. This has been passed on to me by many including instructors at conferences.
2. The length of a book can be no less than 80,000 words and no more than 110,000 words. If shorter make it longer, and if beyond the 110,000 either make it two books or edit material out.

Of course there are other examples. I find that in at least both of these examples that you are ignoring the conventional wisdom which is being both taught and passed on, and is truthfully, fine by me, as I have read both the Honor series and the Safehold series and have enjoyed them tremendously.

Lastly at this time, I should mention that I am older than you, and worked a career from which I have retired. Since retiring I have completed 3 manuscripts with the majority of the editing out of the way, and within 20,000 words of finishing a 4th. I state this to show that like many, I am not a want-to-be writer but actually do have manuscripts that are in the editing stage. And please continue to produce your works as they are quite enjoyable. I have a couple of comments that I will probably post later in your Safehold forum. But wanted to use this to at least make contact with you personally, or at least as close as one can. And finally by not mentioning who I am or even what I write I hope to keep that self promotion out. Thank you

Ouch. I'm not sure if this is a language issue, but you're coming across as very condescending. DW is not some aspiring author who needs your guidance and advice; he's one of the most popular and successful authors in his particular field, with dozens of internationally published books. I wonder how many of the "instructors at conferences" you have had have published even half as many books as David Weber?

Actually that was not the intention. If indeed it came across that way I apologize. The point I was making is simply that Dave is a very accomplished writer and his characters have depth, and there are many in his stories. And yes many of the trainers at these conferences have as many books published as Dave. What was being relayed at these conferences and classes is directed towards new or unpublished writers. This is what the industry is looking for. By being as accomplished as Dave is he is not bound by these limitations. But being an unknown, and unless one wants to self-publish, it is the rules that one must adhere to, to have a chance to get an agent, or eventually a publisher. These are facts that come not only from other authors, but from agents, editors, and publishers. So I applaud the fact that Dave can beat them, so to speak, at their own game, and we the readers are the ultimate winners.

Loner wrote:Actually that was not the intention. If indeed it came across that way I apologize. The point I was making is simply that Dave is a very accomplished writer and his characters have depth, and there are many in his stories. And yes many of the trainers at these conferences have as many books published as Dave. What was being relayed at these conferences and classes is directed towards new or unpublished writers. This is what the industry is looking for. By being as accomplished as Dave is he is not bound by these limitations. But being an unknown, and unless one wants to self-publish, it is the rules that one must adhere to, to have a chance to get an agent, or eventually a publisher. These are facts that come not only from other authors, but from agents, editors, and publishers. So I applaud the fact that Dave can beat them, so to speak, at their own game, and we the readers are the ultimate winners.

Loner, a word if I may ... a lesson that runs true no matter the profession or field of endeavor ... "Don't mess with success."

I don't know if I've ever read any of your works or even which genre you write in but Mr Weber has a number of best sellers to his credit and his most complex series (Honor Harrington) is arguably his most popular. He would be wise to continue in his proven successful way.

I have thoughts about writing fiction and scifi for publication one day rather than just for my own entertainment and Mr Weber is one of a number of authors I look to for examples of "how to," style and inspiration.

Sheesh... You sound like a 10 year old scriptkiddie trying to teach a 30 year old hardcore hacker how to bruteforce into a network.

I´m pretty much a linguist by work and interest and you´re coming across so horribly condescending that its making you look pathetically LAME!!!

Since retiring I have completed 3 manuscripts with the majority of the editing out of the way, and within 20,000 words of finishing a 4th. I state this to show that like many, I am not a want-to-be writer but actually do have manuscripts that are in the editing stage.

Lol... So what?

My current reading includes for example this:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6766023/1/R ... _Dark_Road
The two writers cooperating on it, put their previous stories on hiatus for several months while planning this out, then they started writing and are producing a 20-40 thousand word chapter each WEEK. Total so far, 722000 words.
And the above story is a crossover from the stories the writers did before, one of them alone is up at 700k words for just his two preceeding stories(the original of which he wrote as practise to see how well he could write a full novelsize story).


You ARE a complete wannabe until you have either an audience or have something published. The story of the above example has many thousands of readers every week, simply because their story is pretty good, even if i much prefer one of the two writers over the other.


Now, after having trashed you around a bit, i suggest you look perhaps here:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/OnPublishingFiction.htm
and here:
http://www.authorsonline.co.uk/index.php
which is how the owner of the previous link published his book.

Or at the least, go to fanfiction.net or some similar site and try and get something written and see how real, random people actually like or dislike what you write.
It´s one of the main reasons why they exist.

Tenshinai wrote:Sheesh... You sound like a 10 year old scriptkiddie trying to teach a 30 year old hardcore hacker how to bruteforce into a network.

I´m pretty much a linguist by work and interest and you´re coming across so horribly condescending that its making you look pathetically LAME!!!

Since retiring I have completed 3 manuscripts with the majority of the editing out of the way, and within 20,000 words of finishing a 4th. I state this to show that like many, I am not a want-to-be writer but actually do have manuscripts that are in the editing stage.

Lol... So what?

My current reading includes for example this:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6766023/1/R ... _Dark_Road
The two writers cooperating on it, put their previous stories on hiatus for several months while planning this out, then they started writing and are producing a 20-40 thousand word chapter each WEEK. Total so far, 722000 words.
And the above story is a crossover from the stories the writers did before, one of them alone is up at 700k words for just his two preceeding stories(the original of which he wrote as practise to see how well he could write a full novelsize story).


You ARE a complete wannabe until you have either an audience or have something published. The story of the above example has many thousands of readers every week, simply because their story is pretty good, even if i much prefer one of the two writers over the other.


Now, after having trashed you around a bit, i suggest you look perhaps here:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/OnPublishingFiction.htm
and here:
http://www.authorsonline.co.uk/index.php
which is how the owner of the previous link published his book.

Or at the least, go to fanfiction.net or some similar site and try and get something written and see how real, random people actually like or dislike what you write.
It´s one of the main reasons why they exist.

I am both a Professional (I've had one count them one article published in a specialty journal) but mostly amateur writer. The word Amateur is derived from the Latin Amere to love. I often write a quick novelette of where I think a series is going it's fan-fic but I don't share with others. I put a little of my 'The Death Fangs' in treecat poker before the Duckk correctly pulled the plug, and the other fans were tearing my main point to shreds. Dave gives some good points on writing, he is more orderly than I, for I shoot from the hip without a story outline letting the muse lead where she will. But I'm writing for myself if a universe has a cast of thousands so be it, if its too short or too long so be it, and if everybody and his dog would hate it who cares they won't see it.
The above from Tenshinani is correct you want to get published submit, the only sure (well your heirs could submit post-mortum) way not to get published is not to submit.

petercharters wrote:

Loner wrote:Dave, I am not going to be one who shamelessly uses another writer's website to promote myself. But do have some comments that as an unpublished writer that I smile at:
1. In today's writing world it is nice to have some clout as to what and how you write. Here I am speaking about the suggestion that you keep your characters, named especially, to seven or less. This has been passed on to me by many including instructors at conferences.
2. The length of a book can be no less than 80,000 words and no more than 110,000 words. If shorter make it longer, and if beyond the 110,000 either make it two books or edit material out.

Of course there are other examples. I find that in at least both of these examples that you are ignoring the conventional wisdom which is being both taught and passed on, and is truthfully, fine by me, as I have read both the Honor series and the Safehold series and have enjoyed them tremendously.

Lastly at this time, I should mention that I am older than you, and worked a career from which I have retired. Since retiring I have completed 3 manuscripts with the majority of the editing out of the way, and within 20,000 words of finishing a 4th. I state this to show that like many, I am not a want-to-be writer but actually do have manuscripts that are in the editing stage. And please continue to produce your works as they are quite enjoyable. I have a couple of comments that I will probably post later in your Safehold forum. But wanted to use this to at least make contact with you personally, or at least as close as one can. And finally by not mentioning who I am or even what I write I hope to keep that self promotion out. Thank you

Ouch. I'm not sure if this is a language issue, but you're coming across as very condescending. DW is not some aspiring author who needs your guidance and advice; he's one of the most popular and successful authors in his particular field, with dozens of internationally published books. I wonder how many of the "instructors at conferences" you have had have published even half as many books as David Weber?

Ok man did u really read what loner said or u just skimmed the words, im a programmer and one of the principal things they teach us when we start programming is to read and interpret exactly what the people write or say and while i read fast i dont skim words (i can read easily Mission of honor in 1 afternoon) , first loner said he is saying hi and sharing that at least DW knows very well how to do things even if he doesnt do them as how other writers who are teaching seminaries say u need to do books, second he didnt say his name or even the type of manuscripts he has writen, so what he is doing is, saying hi and saying he is an amateur writter. i wanted to share some words with DW i dont think it will ever be possible with his busy schedule and more because he is so famous and so busy with so many series (4th book of war gods own almost finished) but i would have loved to talk to him and i think what he (Loner) is doing is saying hi im an amateur writter and i love ur books.

Sorry for the wall of text, my work as a programmer is to read and see exactly what people are saying then write in some programming language(C++, java, etc...) im not used to write in forums or stuff but ive been trying my best.

Charles, I most definitely read what loner said, very carefully. It doesn't come across quite right, which I why I mentioned the manner or style of his post rather than anything else; he spends a lot of his time discussing himself and his instructors and very little applying it to DWs work. It could be interpreted as a statement of how the supposed rules don't always apply and how DW doesn't follow them and is successful, or it could be interpreted as an attempt to "educate" DW while presenting his expert credentials.

I suspected he may well have meant more of the former, but it came across, not just to me, as having a flavour of the latter, which is why I brought it up to give him a chance to add to what he was saying to make it clearer; this is exactly what he did. All good. And, as I said, I thought there was a chance that English was not his first language, based on his wording (the group I last managed had German, Swiss German, French, Italian, Russian, English and Serbo-Croat native speakers, so I tend to be aware of this when reading).

And, at the risk of doing it again :), you mention the wall-o-text thing; I too was a programmer before I moved into management and if you're going to be a good professional coder it's usually very good practice to lay out your code neatly and comment it properly. I find that punctuation and white space works the same way in a forum post, breaking it into manageable chunks and vastly increasing reading speed and comprehension. If you make it hard work for a reader to wade through your text, many will not bother to do so; and isn't the point of a forum post to be read and discussed?

Charles83 wrote:

petercharters wrote:

Loner wrote:Dave, I am not going to be one who shamelessly uses another writer's website to promote myself. But do have some comments that as an unpublished writer that I smile at:
1. In today's writing world it is nice to have some clout as to what and how you write. Here I am speaking about the suggestion that you keep your characters, named especially, to seven or less. This has been passed on to me by many including instructors at conferences.
2. The length of a book can be no less than 80,000 words and no more than 110,000 words. If shorter make it longer, and if beyond the 110,000 either make it two books or edit material out.

Of course there are other examples. I find that in at least both of these examples that you are ignoring the conventional wisdom which is being both taught and passed on, and is truthfully, fine by me, as I have read both the Honor series and the Safehold series and have enjoyed them tremendously.

Lastly at this time, I should mention that I am older than you, and worked a career from which I have retired. Since retiring I have completed 3 manuscripts with the majority of the editing out of the way, and within 20,000 words of finishing a 4th. I state this to show that like many, I am not a want-to-be writer but actually do have manuscripts that are in the editing stage. And please continue to produce your works as they are quite enjoyable. I have a couple of comments that I will probably post later in your Safehold forum. But wanted to use this to at least make contact with you personally, or at least as close as one can. And finally by not mentioning who I am or even what I write I hope to keep that self promotion out. Thank you

Ouch. I'm not sure if this is a language issue, but you're coming across as very condescending. DW is not some aspiring author who needs your guidance and advice; he's one of the most popular and successful authors in his particular field, with dozens of internationally published books. I wonder how many of the "instructors at conferences" you have had have published even half as many books as David Weber?

Ok man did u really read what loner said or u just skimmed the words, im a programmer and one of the principal things they teach us when we start programming is to read and interpret exactly what the people write or say and while i read fast i dont skim words (i can read easily Mission of honor in 1 afternoon) , first loner said he is saying hi and sharing that at least DW knows very well how to do things even if he doesnt do them as how other writers who are teaching seminaries say u need to do books, second he didnt say his name or even the type of manuscripts he has writen, so what he is doing is, saying hi and saying he is an amateur writter. i wanted to share some words with DW i dont think it will ever be possible with his busy schedule and more because he is so famous and so busy with so many series (4th book of war gods own almost finished) but i would have loved to talk to him and i think what he (Loner) is doing is saying hi im an amateur writter and i love ur books.

Sorry for the wall of text, my work as a programmer is to read and see exactly what people are saying then write in some programming language(C++, java, etc...) im not used to write in forums or stuff but ive been trying my best.

Amateur writers write for the love of it, professional get paid for it and probably like writing or wouldn't be any good at it. Our Younger Generation (Charles83 probably born in 1983 is in a generation or two younger than some of ours) uses 'Texting English' rather than current 'Standard English' as their most common form of written English. The English language like all languages change with time. IE. Shakespeare's English or Old English with its extra letters. Thus almost all younger writers are not used to writing in Standard English. I taught a semester at university and know whereof I speak so the younger generations are not, repeat NOT, being intentionally rude in using 'Texting English' that an old curmudgeon like me barely understands. Horror of horrors 'Texting English' might well become the next 'Standard English.' Might make a good Sci-Fi novel a new dark age where very few can read the surviving books written in Standard English when the net crashes. One of you young bucks want to take that and run with it be my guest. I probably won't be around to read it let alone sue you for it, and I just slit my throat telling you to run with it leaglely[?sp] speaking anyway.

I remain your most humble and obedient servant
Charles E. Simpson AKA CPO Poker-Mind

PS To my younger readers give your feeling on the above, or to use ancient English 'Vent your spleens.'

PSS An old uncle of mine [b. 1887] in a letter he typed to my dad said he wished he could teach the typewriter to spell. Well Uncle John we have spellchecker now, but its like looking things up in the dictionary if you can't spell it you often can't spell it even with spellchecker's help. When I'm stumped I use [?sp] in my posts. I have a form of dyslexia where I can't memorize strings of letters IE proper spelling or numbers IE telephone numbers etc. So young writers out there If I can write with that handicap you can improve your written English to 'Standard English' with work and practice. IE. Look it over before hitting the Submit button.

pokermind wrote:Amateur writers write for the love of it, professional get paid for it and probably like writing or wouldn't be any good at it. Our Younger Generation (Charles83 probably born in 1983 is in a generation or two younger than some of ours) uses 'Texting English' rather than current 'Standard English' as their most common form of written English. The English language like all languages change with time. IE. Shakespeare's English or Old English with its extra letters. Thus almost all younger writers are not used to writing in Standard English. I taught a semester at university and know whereof I speak so the younger generations are not, repeat NOT, being intentionally rude in using 'Texting English' that an old curmudgeon like me barely understands. Horror of horrors 'Texting English' might well become the next 'Standard English.' Might make a good Sci-Fi novel a new dark age where very few can read the surviving books written in Standard English when the net crashes. One of you young bucks want to take that and run with it be my guest. I probably won't be around to read it let alone sue you for it, and I just slit my throat telling you to run with it leaglely[?sp] speaking anyway.

I remain your most humble and obedient servant
Charles E. Simpson AKA CPO Poker-Mind

PS To my younger readers give your feeling on the above, or to use ancient English 'Vent your spleens.'

PSS An old uncle of mine [b. 1887] in a letter he typed to my dad said he wished he could teach the typewriter to spell. Well Uncle John we have spellchecker now, but its like looking things up in the dictionary if you can't spell it you often can't spell it even with spellchecker's help. When I'm stumped I use [?sp] in my posts. I have a form of dyslexia where I can't memorize strings of letters IE proper spelling or numbers IE telephone numbers etc. So young writers out there If I can write with that handicap you can improve your written English to 'Standard English' with work and practice. IE. Look it over before hitting the Submit button.

Had to go shopping while in midst of above post I'm legally [hey the spellchecker worked this time] blind and have to go when my roommate/caregiver goes. My health is such that I'm hopeing for another decade not decades. A famous writer noted that the prospect of hanging concentrated the mind wonderfully. I don't ask for sympathy I made the life choices I'm paying for now. An ancient sage when asked for a quote appropriate at any time came up with 'And this too shall pass.' The Baen writers have one 'maybe the horse will learn to sing,' I like. My Aunt Minnie [B. 1885 in frontier Indian Territory (the present day state of Oklahoma)] had one, from the days when men spoke with their six-guns, or 'dry gulch-ed the son-of-a-bitch,' and thought the modern world was better than olden days; said to me, "Good manners don't cost you a thing, but bad manners can damn well get you killed."
So my young friends out there take time in your posts, be polite to the OLD FARTS and write in Standard English. Might take you a little more time, but if you desire to be an author will be good practice for you(not 'u' damn it.)
I was born in 1953 my father was the youngest in his family b. 1902. My school chums parents remembered the days before television, while my father remembered the days before radio. My grandfather b. 1853 d. 1943 inhareted[?sp] the family slave ca 1857 when his father was killed in a tree felling accident. During the civil war his chore was digging out the dirt under smoke houses, they dissolved salt in the salt laden dirt and boiled down the resulting salt water to have table salt during the Damn Yankee blockade. To say I was generation-ally challenged growing up is an understatement. So that's why I come across as much older than I am.