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IANS Hellbarde

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Re: IANS Hellbarde
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Thu May 16, 2019 7:45 am

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I really want the next work from BuNine also.

All things being equal, the Andies built a pretty good ship compared to the Peeps' Mars class. And it does sort of sound like the Guardian Sollie cruiser in some ways, so the Andies are at least Catholic in their intel gathering.

All things aren't being equal, though. :)

Jessica Epps didn't need to be a Sag B; the Andies had never been on the receiving end of Mantie EW missiles.

From WoH, Chap. 41
"Multiple missile launches from Hellbarde!" Harris barked. "Looks like a full broadside, Ma'am!"


And, of course, not a word when every other battle has a sensor rating saying how many incoming. :shock:

Chap. 42
"For what it matters, Chantilly's sensor data clearly indicate that Jessica Epps was winning the engagement handily when a hit from one of Hellbarde's last laser heads apparently caused one of her fusion plants to lose containment."



Hellebarde: 350K tons; attacked from over 10m km. So very good stealth, extended range missiles, ftl drones. RFC never gave the "full broadside" numbers, but no one called it a double broadside or stacked; so while they have more capability than most navies, they don't manage the battlecruiser level off-bore double broadside of the SagB.


There are two classes of "new" Andie cruisers in WoH; Hellebarde at 350k tons and some other class ~400k tons. I suspect the Hellebarde is slightly older, and introduced in response to a 1910-ish Mars, and 1912-ish Saganami; and probably set up similarly to the SagA or the older Jason Alvarez class as far as broadside missiles go. The Mars had 11 tubes, the Alvarez and the Saganami 14.

Jessica Epps would have been "winning handily" because the Andies just didn't have the capabilities of the Dazzlers and Dragonteeth, nor had they ever attacked a ship with the e/w and missile defenses (and trained crews) of the Alliance ships. And the Epps also had the bow wall, even if it was a Sag-A.

Hellebarde would have been totally screwed by any Saganami class vessel if the Sag-A fire control was updated to fire the Mk13ER off-bore, like the SagB's Mk14. That would be at least 28 missiles from the broadside tubes and one of the chase sets, 31 missiles in the salvo. Surprise Kapitan Görtz.


The B has full off-bore capability at Hypatia, but Gauntlet didn't have it in 1917. But the RMN should add some of that capability to the older ships, if possible.

Not possible with the Prince Consorts, maybe that was why Janacek scrapped them instead of assigning them back to Silesia. Although, the crew count probably had more to do with that.

They didn't get full off-bore with the Sag-B until the Sag-C was in service; and despite the "continuous upgrade and refit" programs, no one has mentioned the possibility of a Mk13 being off-bore capable.

Or, whatever the destroyer/lt. cruiser grade missile is.

If these older ship's fire control and missiles were updated though, the Star Knights, Valiants, and Culverins might stay on in second line roles (with the SagA) for another decade, as commerce protection.

ymmv

Rob





[/quote]
Theemile wrote:
Micah wrote:Hello All!
I have a quick question: I have been re-listening to the series and I am almost done with War of Honor; I am at the fight between IANS Hellbarde and HMS Jessica Epps and I was curious as to what class the Hellbarde was and besides getting the first salvo off/lucky hit, what made her so powerful? I realize that the IAN had really upgraded their ships/tech, but was it the fact the captains where a little to adversarial?


The Hellbarde's class was never mentioned, but obviously was significantly newer than anything we were given in the SITS data on the Andermani (which was a partial detail on what was normal in the Andermani OOB in Silesia in 1900-1905, not a good overall view of the Andermani Navy. Like the RMN, Silesia usually got older, smaller IAN ships then because new, powerful ones just were not required)

The Epps was most Likely a Sag-B, and had she been at a war footing, with her remotes out and holding the range open, probably would have taken the Hellbarde handily, even without the missile pods that the RMN has come to rely on. Even after the Hellbarde fired on her in surprise, she still "won" the battle, only to succome to a damaged reactor shortly afterward. With the Hellbarde firing inside it's own missile range, the Epp's 2 biggest advantages are taken from it - it's greater accel (though the Hellbard did have improved comps) and it's extended range missiles. Both of which would normally allow the Epps to choose the battle - something which didn't happen.


However, The Hellbarde would probably be more than a match for a Star Knight or a Sag-A. Don't forget, a Sag-B has ER missiles, 19 missile broadsides, Bow & Stern walls, 120 degree offbore firing, and extended range CMs. I doubt an IAN CA in 1919 had all that, but it probably could have taken a classic 14 missile salvo from a Sag-A. So speaking totally from WAG, I'd call the 1919 Hellbarde just above a 1916 Sag-A in punching weight (at most). Against a 1921 Sag-A, with Mk 13 XLs, the Sag-A would probably be on top. (But the IAN might have this missile tech also in 1921)

Hopefully we'll get a better look at the class in the next compendium. Personally, I can't wait.
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Re: IANS Hellbarde
Post by saber964   » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:06 pm

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Daryl wrote:Knowing of RFC's encyclopedic knowledge of wet naval warfare I wonder if this incident was influenced by two engagements by different cruisers with the same name in WW1 and WW2. Both light cruisers and Australian. HMAS Australia 1 and 2.
In WW1, HMAS Sydney (1) met up with the German light cruiser Embden, and defeated it driving it to beach. As should be expected from the relative ship's strengths.
In WW2, HMAS Sydney (2) met up with the German auxiliary cruiser Kormoran, which used subterfuge (pretending to be a Dutch merchantman) to lure the Sydney in close then attacked without warning. Both ships were lost, the element of surprise compensating for inferior war fighting equipment.

The HMAS Sydney in WWI was equipped with 7 x 6in guns SMS Emdend was equipped with 7 x 4.1in guns. During WWI there were two types of light cruisers. The first is the traditional light cruiser equipped with 5 to 9 6 inch guns and the Scout cruiser basically a oversized destroyer equipped with 5 to 9 4in to 5in guns.
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