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Post-UH Financial Instruments

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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by Daryl   » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:17 am

Daryl
Admiral

Posts: 2753
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

That info dump from David explained a lot, it's well reasoned plausible and it's his universe anyway.

On a broader note I do wonder about finances in 2,000+ years, particularly in the Honorverse.
Even fiat currencies usually have an underlying economic base. When you have virtually unlimited energy from fusion and gravitonics, virtually unlimited materials from cheap access to thousands of solar systems, and plenty of time from prolong, everyone should be rich beyond our wildest dreams.
We see the start of it now, where previously industrialised economies are transitioning to service economies. Instead of working on a lathe a worker will be delivering Uber eats.
A base grade worker in a developed country now lives better than a top professional did thirty years ago (the US may be an exception here).
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:00 am

cthia
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Posts: 11051
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During the Lacoons, I did wonder if at least the Wells Fargo ships were admitted thru the junction..."But I've got your money!" LOL

Trying to play in Weber's financial markets is like planning for a trip without knowing where you are going. Or attempting your taxes without . . .

Form W-2 (wage and salary income)
Form W-2G (gambling winnings)
Form 1099-A (foreclosure of a home)
Form 1099-B (sales of stock, bonds, or other investments)
Form 1099-C (canceled debts)
Form 1099-DIV (dividends)
Form 1099-G (state tax refunds and unemployment compensation)
Form 1099-INT (interest income)
Form 1099-K (business or rental income processed by third-party networks)
Form 1099-LTC (benefits received from a long-term care policy)
Form 1099-MISC (self-employment and other various types of income)

Form 1099-OID (original issue discount on bonds)
Form 1099-PATR (patronage dividends)
Form 1099-Q (distributions from an education savings plan)
Form 1099-QA (distributions from an ABLE account)
Form 1099-R (distributions from individual retirement accounts, 401(k) plans, and other types of retirement savings plans)
Form 1099-S (proceeds from the sale of real estate)
Form 1099-SA (distributions from health savings accounts)
Form SSA-1099 (Social Security benefits)
Form RRB-1099 (Railroad retirement benefits)
Form 1097-BTC (bond tax credit)
Form 1098 (mortgage interest)
Form 1098-C (charitable contribution of vehicles)
Form 1098-E (student loan interest)
Form 1098-MA (homeowner mortgage payments)
Form 1098-T (tuition for higher education)
Business expenses (summarized by type and amount)
Child care expenses (summarized by provider and amount)
Gambling losses
Medical expenses
Moving expenses
Personal property tax, such as car registration paid
Real estate tax bills
Realized gain/loss report for any stocks, bonds, mutual funds and other capital investments sold during the year

Receipts or acknowledgment letters for gifts to charity
Rental expenses (summarized by property, type, and amount)

Schedule K-1 (income from partnerships, S corporations, estates, or trusts)

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:49 am

Weird Harold
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Location: "Lost Wages", NV

cthia wrote:Trying to play in Weber's financial markets is like planning for a trip without knowing where you are going. Or attempting your taxes without . . .


Manticore uses the New and Improved tax form:

1: How much did you make last year?

2: How much is left?

3: send line 2.

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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by ldwechsler   » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:15 am

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:15 am

Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Trying to play in Weber's financial markets is like planning for a trip without knowing where you are going. Or attempting your taxes without . . .


Manticore uses the New and Improved tax form:

1: How much did you make last year?

2: How much is left?

3: send line 2.



Old joke. Very old joke.

And, according to textev scattered here and there, incorrect. Tax burdens were considered rather low in Manticore. A lot of it is due to having revenues from the junction.
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:20 am

TFLYTSNBN
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

tlb wrote:
GloriousRuse wrote:TFLY pointed out that the SEM probably has large amounts of foreign specie. Relevant to them, and the rest of the honorverse, the Sol was presumably the universal currency of trade with Manty-Buck doing brisk work in the Haven sector and near the junction. I highly doubt the Sol was a pegged currency. As a fiat currency, it's value is probably plummeting as of the end of UH. Do we expect currency holders (aka, people and entities saving money), debt holders (people who bought bonds and the like), and anyone with fixed payment schemes (pensions, for example) to crash with it?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:How much you bet that Queen Elizebeth had the foresight to liquidate Solarian Legue assets from the Crown Purse before implementing Case Lacoon 1 & 2 because she understood that this economic warfare would ravage the value of SL currency? I also wager that Queen Elizebeth was in the background interceeding with Manticoran shippers and their clients to simply buy diverted cargos of fabrication modules and other critically needed stuff to rebuild Manticore's orbital industrial infrastructure? How much you bet that Queen Elizebeth used remaining cash reserves to buy up even more critically needed stuff after Honor Harrington's little visit to Sol system tanked the SL economy?

Perhaps the Queen did something with the Crown Purse, but anything else is a matter for the government ministers who control fiscal and financial policy, which she does not. In particular the large amounts of foreign specie that Manticore holds is controlled by the government, not the Queen.

Also what evidence could we possibly have that the Solarian League economy tanked, because of orbital damage at Sol and the loss of prestige of the SLN?



Were you not paying attention to the US stock market after the 9-11 attacks?
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:28 am

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4439
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

ldwechsler wrote:Old joke. Very old joke.

And, according to textev scattered here and there, incorrect. Tax burdens were considered rather low in Manticore. A lot of it is due to having revenues from the junction.


Yes, it is inaccurate in that sense, but fairly accurate as to the length of the tax form -- as per Capt. Terechov's POV.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by GloriousRuse   » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:45 am

GloriousRuse
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:52 pm

Interesting data dump. Let me see if I got it right before extrapolating:

1) There are certain large banking houses that are authorized to issue Solarian Credits based on having an unspecified ratio of assets to cover the credits. Each bank is inherently authorized to print (well, electronically call into existence) Sols.

2) If a bank cannot make good, the LDIA covers it.

3) In the absence of a fixed value versus a given commodity, people essentially trust the Government to fairly assess the assets the banks are printing money against as reasonably fair. And that because the SLN economy as a whole is so big, everyone assumes the government or its offices will fundamentally always be able to cover any errors in the system through the financial equivalent of brute force.

Can anyone else confirm that’s right?
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:31 am

TFLYTSNBN
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

GloriousRuse wrote:Interesting data dump. Let me see if I got it right before extrapolating:

1) There are certain large banking houses that are authorized to issue Solarian Credits based on having an unspecified ratio of assets to cover the credits. Each bank is inherently authorized to print (well, electronically call into existence) Sols.

2) If a bank cannot make good, the LDIA covers it.

3) In the absence of a fixed value versus a given commodity, people essentially trust the Government to fairly assess the assets the banks are printing money against as reasonably fair. And that because the SLN economy as a whole is so big, everyone assumes the government or its offices will fundamentally always be able to cover any errors in the system through the financial equivalent of brute force.

Can anyone else confirm that’s right?


These are the perfect preconditions for the SL to endure hyper inflation when the SL begins printing Solarian Credits to fund rebuilding Battle Fleet rather than continue the time honored practice of brigandage and exploitation of Verge worlds.
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by tlb   » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:16 pm

tlb
Commodore

Posts: 843
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

tlb wrote:Also what evidence could we possibly have that the Solarian League economy tanked, because of orbital damage at Sol and the loss of prestige of the SLN?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Were you not paying attention to the US stock market after the 9-11 attacks?

The US stock market did not tank (that is to fail completely, especially at great financial cost) after 9-11; it did drop steeply in the immediate aftermath, but by December was back near the pre-attack levels. If anything, that supports what I have been saying. From Wikipedia:
Stock exchanges closed between September 10, 2001 and September 17, 2001. After the initial panic, the DJIA quickly rose for only a slight drop.

One difference, there have been fears of more attacks after 9-11; but there is no reason (because they never paid attention to Oyster Bay) to expect another attack on the Solarian League. There certainly is no reason for the GA to do more damage to the League members.
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Re: Post-UH Financial Instruments
Post by tlb   » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:25 pm

tlb
Commodore

Posts: 843
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

GloriousRuse wrote:In the absence of a fixed value versus a given commodity, people essentially trust the Government to fairly assess the assets the banks are printing money against as reasonably fair. And that because the SLN economy as a whole is so big, everyone assumes the government or its offices will fundamentally always be able to cover any errors in the system through the financial equivalent of brute force.

Doesn't that describe most major currencies these days, ever since governments left the gold standard? Is the only independent feedback to the system the currency exchange market?
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