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The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by Galactic Sapper   » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:50 pm

Galactic Sapper
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aairfccha wrote:Between the sluggish reaction speed of biology and the time constraints imposed by a relativistic approach velocity, this conclusion sounds a little... thin. Also, did the tugs actually intercept the missiles? I only remember them stopping bits and pieces of the stations. In contrast, the Hasta drones in UH tried to dodge the block ships but mostly didn't manage to.

They did not block any of the missiles. The closest thing to that during OB was a freighter dodging a missile.

OTOH, we do have an instance of a piloted ship intercepting a missile - Honor intentionally taking a missile on the wedge of her runabout to protect the Queen and Protector in Ashes of Victory. Moreover, that incident also gives us the far more likely scenario for kamikazes/Kaitens in the Honorverse - the ship that launched those two missiles. The "Kamikaze" crew wouldn't be on board the missiles, they'd be on the ship that launches the missiles with no intention of getting back out afterward. Modify a freighter to carry and dispense mass missile pods (HMS Wayfarer, for instance), drop out of hyper on the limit exactly as any other freighter, and when you get to minimal range you flush the pods and blow your reactor to deny the enemy anyone to interrogate or much in the way of wreckage to examine. Not only is it a devastating attack, it's entirely deniable - especially if you stop a completely legitimate freighter of the same class which is expected to show up about that time and vector and come in under its transponder code. You could probably get all the way into single drive missile range before firing, giving the targets only a couple minutes to react. You get something almost the same level of surprise as OB with little or no new technology needed.
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by Brigade XO   » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:53 pm

Brigade XO
Admiral

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If your the Alignment and you want to do this all again, there is theoreticaly a better way. You could even bring one of your big spider drive ships (hello MAN Leonard Detweiler) into a system undetected and then launch a large flock of spider drive pods and graser torpedos as you move around an arc withing the system to spread the approch vectors and time the engine starts and flight times of the weapos to impact their targets withing about 5 to 10 minutes. The GT's are effectively invisible all the way to when the open fire and the "normal" missiles in the pods get run in using spiders (which could then be rammed into things or just self destruct post-missle flush.
You have just done Oyster Bay the way it seems the tactial use of the Lenny Det's may be intended. Ghost in, deploy your weapons and be well out of harms way be able to sit on the system's edge and watch the chaos and destruction without seriously endangering our capital ships. Then you slink away unobserved, rearm and go screw over some other system.
Heck you could pull this a couple of times and the Renaissance Factor could show up soon after and be the hero for humanitarinal aid and taking the malled system under it's protection.
Slezzy move, right up there with OFS making economic aid for someting they instigated the reason for putting systems in ecomomic slavery & servitude of being a Protecotrate as the price of your survival. Very Alignment. After all that's just a planet of normal humans and they are not even as worthile to you as cattle.
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by cthia   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:04 am

cthia
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Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by cthia   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:17 am

cthia
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Brigade XO wrote:If your the Alignment and you want to do this all again, there is theoreticaly a better way. You could even bring one of your big spider drive ships (hello MAN Leonard Detweiler) into a system undetected and then launch a large flock of spider drive pods and graser torpedos as you move around an arc withing the system to spread the approch vectors and time the engine starts and flight times of the weapos to impact their targets withing about 5 to 10 minutes. The GT's are effectively invisible all the way to when the open fire and the "normal" missiles in the pods get run in using spiders (which could then be rammed into things or just self destruct post-missle flush.
You have just done Oyster Bay the way it seems the tactial use of the Lenny Det's may be intended. Ghost in, deploy your weapons and be well out of harms way be able to sit on the system's edge and watch the chaos and destruction without seriously endangering our capital ships. Then you slink away unobserved, rearm and go screw over some other system.
Heck you could pull this a couple of times and the Renaissance Factor could show up soon after and be the hero for humanitarinal aid and taking the malled system under it's protection.
Slezzy move, right up there with OFS making economic aid for someting they instigated the reason for putting systems in ecomomic slavery & servitude of being a Protecotrate as the price of your survival. Very Alignment. After all that's just a planet of normal humans and they are not even as worthile to you as cattle.


Galactic Sapper, Brigade XO. Both of you have submitted interesting takes on the kamikaze attack. It's interesting that the new warfare can utilize varying methods of kamikaze attacks, depending on target and goals.

@Brigade XO. Howzabout manned graser torps?

They've taking the gloves off and they fight dirty. And smart. A new take on tactical warfare.

We're always talking about the Manties having too easy a time of it. We have a thread raging on that concern now. David has a real chance to mold the MA out of substance. The Alphas are no pushovers no matter what you think of their ideals. The MA has always come at a problem from the opposite end.

"We think smart, not hard."

The varying tactics of kamikaze warfare could unleash a new breed of terror on the galaxy. Catching the unsuspecting GA with their pants down, dumbstruck and knocked off balance. Can the Salamander adjust in time to an entirely different paradigm in tactical warfare?

SUN TZU WOULD BE PROUD.

Wouldn't it be simply divine if the MAlign were so cocky and sure of their tech (for good reason) that Detweiler hypers into the Grayson system and issues an ultimatum. Wait'll the Salamander see what the MAlign has done to her beloved Grayson.

Deliver a message to the Salamander . . .

"You cost us our father. We came to play."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by cthia   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:02 am

cthia
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A Fandom page? Bitchin'



THE HUMAN TORPEDO
===============================
Cockpit: One control, hand operated rudder, since biological stress makes things difficult.

What kind of a HUD will the pilot enjoy? I bet he sees a beautiful site before dying, bearing down on a planet or space station.
===============================
Schematic: Kaiten Torpedo
===============================

The Kaiten Motto?

In the words of my generation "Up Yours!"



Kaiten:
BAD ΘMEN for GRAYSON? How ironical . . .



Translation: "The turn toward heaven", "The Heaven Shaker" or "Change the World"


Recall the new threat environment of total number of missiles launched. A precedent set by the BOM. Kamikaze's come in swarms. Imagine 100,000 incredibly accurate and dangerous manned missiles unleashed from the farthest bowels of space finally getting their day in the sun, coming in hot. Entering the atmosphere like escape pods without calling ahead first. Their targeting is brutal, taking out key targets without much damage to the planet - as an option. That would represent a force multiplier wouldn't it? Incredible accuracy in a mess of missiles instead of an overly large fleet. CARRIERS! We'll carry the fight to you!

ENDENDENDENDENDENDENDENDENDENDENDENDENDENDEND

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by cthia   » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:41 pm

cthia
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Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Poor Grayson

The RMN has developed a system to detect the MAlign signature. But Malign stealth has been upgraded.

Weather Report on Grayson: It's raining men. Hallelujah, it's raining men.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by tlb   » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:27 am

tlb
Rear Admiral

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Joe Buckley strikes again (from Wikipedia).

Arguably the most successful attack by Kaiten was that on USS Underhill commenced on 24 July 1945. She was a unit of the numerous Buckley class destroyer escort.
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by Galactic Sapper   » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:45 am

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tlb wrote:Joe Buckley strikes again (from Wikipedia).

Arguably the most successful attack by Kaiten was that on USS Underhill commenced on 24 July 1945. She was a unit of the numerous Buckley class destroyer escort.

LOL I saw that too after making my previous post in this topic.
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by phillies   » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:57 am

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Location: Worcester, MA

tlb wrote:Joe Buckley strikes again (from Wikipedia).

Arguably the most successful attack by Kaiten was that on USS Underhill commenced on 24 July 1945. She was a unit of the numerous Buckley class destroyer escort.


The Indianapolis was sunk by the Japanese submarine I-58, which fired conventional type-95 torpedoes. The I-58 did carry kaiten, on occasion, but not in this attack.
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Re: The Malign and the Japanese Kaiten
Post by cthia   » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:10 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

phillies wrote:
tlb wrote:Joe Buckley strikes again (from Wikipedia).

Arguably the most successful attack by Kaiten was that on USS Underhill commenced on 24 July 1945. She was a unit of the numerous Buckley class destroyer escort.


The Indianapolis was sunk by the Japanese submarine I-58, which fired conventional type-95 torpedoes. The I-58 did carry kaiten, on occasion, but not in this attack.

'Tis correct. The Indiannapolis was not sunk by a Kaiten. The Captain of the Indy only brought up the subject of the Kaitens in response to someone asking if they should zigzag. He said not to bother with it because they had Kaitens. Kaitens were steerable and could come back around for another shot if they missed.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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