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Post League Eridani

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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:00 pm

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GloriousRuse wrote:Incidentally, Technodyne has formally introduced Stealth Missiles ...


Cite?

FWIW, Cataphracts aren't particularly stealthy except for any ballistic phase, where they can theoretically be targeted by predicting their course by extrapolation.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by GloriousRuse   » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:20 pm

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Last Sollie attack in UH is using the new stealth missiles to target the Beowulf production lines. I think they called them Hastas. The ones where everyone is like "oh, the entire run against the shipyard was a fake! Good thing we had all these barrier ships!"

Granted, the missiles are described as more akin to chucking small LACs than normal sized missiles, but missiles none the less. And provided to the SLN, who's planners planned an entire attack around them, then trained good portion of the Frontier Fleet to use them. which implies they are now a "known" tech.

Not to be confused with the Malign's stealth graser torpedo/drones that start killing the defense control stations.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by Fox2!   » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:34 am

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GloriousRuse wrote:Granted, the missiles are described as more akin to chucking small LACs than normal sized missiles, but missiles none the less. And provided to the SLN, who's planners planned an entire attack around them, then trained good portion of the Frontier Fleet to use them. which implies they are now a "known" tech.

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And over 85% of those trained to use them are dead or POWs of a very upset Beowulf.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by GloriousRuse   » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:52 am

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Which only leaves the following on the market:

The theoreticians and designers who invented it.

The engineering teams who assembled, tested, and modified it.

The workforce of the production facilities who made them.

Anyone who had access to the design documents.

The planning board who planned on using them.

The trainers who initially helped implement them.

The crews of dozens of battle cruiser class ships who have used them.

God Knows how much of the technodyne staff related to the project.
——

Yep. I think we can safely say that stealth missiles are now a thing.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by Fox2!   » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:06 pm

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GloriousRuse wrote:
Yep. I think we can safely say that stealth missiles are now a thing.


Since Honor carted off the entirety of Systems Development and whatever Technodyne had in Sol space (if not whatever Technodyne had elsewhere in League space when the RMN came calling), the threat of stealth missiles, at least of the first generation, and probably most of the second, is much reduced.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by stewart   » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:09 pm

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Fox2! wrote:
GloriousRuse wrote:
Yep. I think we can safely say that stealth missiles are now a thing.


Since Honor carted off the entirety of Systems Development and whatever Technodyne had in Sol space (if not whatever Technodyne had elsewhere in League space when the RMN came calling), the threat of stealth missiles, at least of the first generation, and probably most of the second, is much reduced.


---------------

Note that Technodyne Industries of Yildun is (1) at a KNOWN location, (2) not a Star Nation itself, but a corporate entity, and (3) located at a known wormhole junction (which RFC has, thus far, declined to identify the termini)
Do you suppose that an unexpected visit by a detachment of Grand Fleet might persuade the Technodyne staff to turn over their computers and data ?

-- Stewart
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:56 pm

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stewart wrote:
Fox2! wrote:

Since Honor carted off the entirety of Systems Development and whatever Technodyne had in Sol space (if not whatever Technodyne had elsewhere in League space when the RMN came calling), the threat of stealth missiles, at least of the first generation, and probably most of the second, is much reduced.


---------------

Note that Technodyne Industries of Yildun is (1) at a KNOWN location, (2) not a Star Nation itself, but a corporate entity, and (3) located at a known wormhole junction (which RFC has, thus far, declined to identify the termini)
Do you suppose that an unexpected visit by a detachment of Grand Fleet might persuade the Technodyne staff to turn over their computers and data ?

-- Stewart


Dont forget the freighters to haul away all of those fabrication modules that Technodyne is donating to rebuild Manticore, Yelstin's Star and Beawulf.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:05 am

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GloriousRuse wrote:Last Sollie attack in UH is using the new stealth missiles to target the Beowulf production lines. I think they called them Hastas. The ones where everyone is like "oh, the entire run against the shipyard was a fake! Good thing we had all these barrier ships!"

Granted, the missiles are described as more akin to chucking small LACs than normal sized missiles, but missiles none the less. And provided to the SLN, who's planners planned an entire attack around them, then trained good portion of the Frontier Fleet to use them. which implies they are now a "known" tech.

Not to be confused with the Malign's stealth graser torpedo/drones that start killing the defense control stations.

My understanding of the Hasta missile was that is was like a CM strapped to the nose of a recon drone. I realize there is a scene where they are demoed and it is explained that they hadn't been detected well into the infiltration phase. However in the actual attack they were hidden in a cloud of noisy recon drones to divert attention prior to the attack phase. So if their flight had to be disguised by real recon drones, then how stealthy are they really? We know that Solarian recon drones are routinely detected and destroyed.

I look upon this weapon as something like Mistletoe, a somewhat stealthy weapon which depended on the opponent not recognizing it as a threat. As with Mistletoe (or the stealth homing missiles used by Masada) there is a final attack phase, that obvious. Is that phase really necessary? Could a recon drone carry a laser head bomb directly into attack range, without the final sprint phase?
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by Brigade XO   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:23 pm

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I suppose you could use graser torpedoes, since they use spider drive, you could use conventional torpedoes from submarines in a fleet action if you speak in terms of torpedoes which have passive sensors for targeting.
You launch your weapons for a probable intersection with ships in a fleet during a battle and let the gt's sensors try to take it into something like a down-the-throat shot or even just a passing shot. If they are not destroyed by getting hit with a target's wedge, they certainly could at least damage an SD. Having your SDs take fire/damage from "invisible" weapons would cause at least a few concerns.

Same thing if you want to send them into a system to hit anything orbital. How far out is any shielding going to be from a refinery, a stand alone manufacturing center, a major traffic lane? Spider Drive and stealth, you burn through enough of any ship or station and there are problems. Your gt becomes a fire-and-forget weapon which could end up just hitting a target of opportunity.

Imagine parking an Lenny Det or even a Shark on the least time approch to a system from any regular major trading partner or wormhole bridge. Your back to the analog of a submarine lurking outside a harbor (or the Pillers of Hercules) and puffing out a gt variation of a silent running acoustical torpedo for a head on capital energy weapon shot. Probably going to burn through such things as the power plant/reactors and Boom.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:11 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:I suppose you could use graser torpedoes, since they use spider drive, you could use conventional torpedoes from submarines in a fleet action if you speak in terms of torpedoes which have passive sensors for targeting.
You launch your weapons for a probable intersection with ships in a fleet during a battle and let the gt's sensors try to take it into something like a down-the-throat shot or even just a passing shot. If they are not destroyed by getting hit with a target's wedge, they certainly could at least damage an SD. Having your SDs take fire/damage from "invisible" weapons would cause at least a few concerns.

Same thing if you want to send them into a system to hit anything orbital. How far out is any shielding going to be from a refinery, a stand alone manufacturing center, a major traffic lane? Spider Drive and stealth, you burn through enough of any ship or station and there are problems. Your gt becomes a fire-and-forget weapon which could end up just hitting a target of opportunity.

Imagine parking an Lenny Det or even a Shark on the least time approch to a system from any regular major trading partner or wormhole bridge. Your back to the analog of a submarine lurking outside a harbor (or the Pillers of Hercules) and puffing out a gt variation of a silent running acoustical torpedo for a head on capital energy weapon shot. Probably going to burn through such things as the power plant/reactors and Boom.

Certainly any spider drive weapon is going to be a problem until there is a reliable method of detection (other than active radar). But I was thinking about the standard recon drone, something in wide use, only equipped with a bomb pumped laser warhead. I did not understand why the Haven navy officers (I think one was Theisman) were blasé about Mistletoe, which should be able to get in range of the defenses while under stealth. A sprint stage is really only needed if the target is accelerating.
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