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Post League Eridani

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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:56 am

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cthia wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:



Dont start that drivel about "people being vaporized" on me.

I actually did the calculations for an op ed refuting the propaganda of THE SHADOW PROJECT. Lethal burns, yes. Vaporization, heck no.

You don't think the 300,000 degrees K encountered at ground zero within the first 50 meters will vaporize you long before anything else?

Ground Zero.


These imbeciles can not even be bothered to differentiate between the effects of a surfsce burst verses an airbust.

No one deploys 20 Megaton nukes anyway. I have a neighbor who used to fly a B-52 that carried two, ten megaton bombs. He was until his recent retirement an extremely overqualified school bus driver.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by Thunder Child Actual   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:50 pm

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cthia wrote:One important distinction is that Honorverse EE violations wouldn't be "nuclear" weapons. Nuclear weapons are a tad bit more of a gruesome weapon. They ensure "gruesome deaths" far above and beyond any notion of gruesome deaths. In the Honorverse, modern medicine can cure the after effects of nuclear weapons but not until after the immediate gruesome suffering of many. At least the resultant decades of birth defects (of people, not sure about the local fauna and vegetation) and such can be countered, if said planet gets the modern treatments, which said planet may not necessarily be privy to.

As to who will enforce proper acts of humane warfare in the Honorverse? Man himself will. After a premeditated attack on a planet, mankind will rise up against the insanity of it all. And a galactic force of hodgepod ships will be sent to deal with the devils. SEM (Grayson, RMN, Havenite) and Andermani.

If kinetic weapons were presently available on earth, they would be used. Because in man's savage warfare on each other, kinetic weapons would presently represent a humane departure from nuclear weapons.

Considering nuclear weapons used post League . . . :o

Nuclear Eridani.
Kinetic Eridani.

These are the questions of man.


Problem with sending SEM and Andermani to deal with the devils is that the devils are on Darius and its location is unknown at this time.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by kzt   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:18 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
No one deploys 20 Megaton nukes anyway. I have a neighbor who used to fly a B-52 that carried two, ten megaton bombs. He was until his recent retirement an extremely overqualified school bus driver.

SS18s can, if they are not loaded with the Soviet modified smallpox clusters bomb warheads.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:29 pm

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kzt wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:
No one deploys 20 Megaton nukes anyway. I have a neighbor who used to fly a B-52 that carried two, ten megaton bombs. He was until his recent retirement an extremely overqualified school bus driver.

SS18s can, if they are not loaded with the Soviet modified smallpox clusters bomb warheads.

I was under the impression the discussion was about the Honorverse. Where if someone decides to commit a nuclear EEV would want to do as much damage as possible—seeing that the decision has a good chance to be rooted in passion. Crimes of passion seek to do the most damage, as in dropping a second 20MT nuke after the first, just to make sure.

Cash strapped entities may have 20MT nukes in their arsenal in lieu of the more expensive, smaller yield, more modern versions.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by ldwechsler   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:04 pm

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cthia wrote:[quote="k]

No one deploys 20 Megaton nukes anyway. I have a neighbor who used to fly a B-52 that carried two, ten megaton bombs. He was until his recent retirement an extremely overqualified school bus driver.[/quote]
SS18s can, if they are not loaded with the Soviet modified smallpox clusters bomb warheads.[/quote]
I was under the impression the discussion was about the Honorverse. Where if someone decides to commit a nuclear EEV would want to do as much damage as possible—seeing that the decision has a good chance to be rooted in passion. Crimes of passion seek to do the most damage, as in dropping a second 20MT nuke after the first, just to make sure.

Cash strapped entities may have 20MT nukes in their arsenal in lieu of the more expensive, smaller yield, more modern versions.[/quote]



Let's stick to Eridani. Somehow all the little bombs hadn't shown up for a millenia or so and now we're just debating them.

The real question is how a violation will be defined as well as punishment.

Would the destruction of the satellites around Hypathia, killing millions, have been considered a violation? Technically, the Sollies did not go after a planet. Yet...
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:31 pm

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In case of a nuclear EEV, I wonder if the nuclear material used in the weapon can be traced to specific entities in the Honorverse as it can be traced to specific countries now. Or at least specific entities possibly ruled out. In the case of the MA, perhaps they'd make an incalculable mistake by procuring their material from a very traceable source, instead of manufacturing their own. In effect, dropping radioactive crumbs to follow.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:31 pm

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ldwechsler wrote:
cthia wrote:[quote="k]

No one deploys 20 Megaton nukes anyway. I have a neighbor who used to fly a B-52 that carried two, ten megaton bombs. He was until his recent retirement an extremely overqualified school bus driver.[/quote]
SS18s can, if they are not loaded with the Soviet modified smallpox clusters bomb warheads.[/quote]
I was under the impression the discussion was about the Honorverse. Where if someone decides to commit a nuclear EEV would want to do as much damage as possible—seeing that the decision has a good chance to be rooted in passion. Crimes of passion seek to do the most damage, as in dropping a second 20MT nuke after the first, just to make sure.

Cash strapped entities may have 20MT nukes in their arsenal in lieu of the more expensive, smaller yield, more modern versions.[/quote][/quote]


Let's stick to Eridani. Somehow all the little bombs hadn't shown up for a millenia or so and now we're just debating them.

The real question is how a violation will be defined as well as punishment.

Would the destruction of the satellites around Hypathia, killing millions, have been considered a violation? Technically, the Sollies did not go after a planet. Yet...[/quote][/quote][/quote]



The EE needs to be redefined to explicitly forbid attacks on orbital habitats. I would submit that wholesale destruction of industrial platforms should also be prohibited. Industrialized civilizations are utterly dependant on advanced technology to support their populations. Honor Harrington demonstrated her understanding by NOT nuking Sol systems Solar Power Satellytes.
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:48 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:The EE needs to be redefined to explicitly forbid attacks on orbital habitats. I would submit that wholesale destruction of industrial platforms should also be prohibited. Industrialized civilizations are utterly dependant on advanced technology to support their populations. Honor Harrington demonstrated her understanding by NOT nuking Sol systems Solar Power Satellytes.


Unless orbital habitats have hidden grasers that take out SDs. If certain countries can place weapons into the hands of kids, mothers and other civilians then why can't Honorverse orbital habitats house weapons of mass destruction?

If up against MA orbital industry, all bets are off. So, as long as the Edict is redefined with that condition in mind.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by kzt   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:02 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:[
The EE needs to be redefined to explicitly forbid attacks on orbital habitats. I would submit that wholesale destruction of industrial platforms should also be prohibited. Industrialized civilizations are utterly dependant on advanced technology to support their populations. Honor Harrington demonstrated her understanding by NOT nuking Sol systems Solar Power Satellytes.

“You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace.”
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Re: Post League Eridani
Post by tlb   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:20 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:The EE needs to be redefined to explicitly forbid attacks on orbital habitats. I would submit that wholesale destruction of industrial platforms should also be prohibited. Industrialized civilizations are utterly dependant on advanced technology to support their populations. Honor Harrington demonstrated her understanding by NOT nuking Sol systems Solar Power Satellytes.

kzt wrote:“You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace.”

Despite the General Sherman quote, we have placed limitations on war (at least during regular wars between industrial powers), but trying to place industrial platforms off limits is much too far. The war making capacity of an industrial nation is directly tied to that manufacturing base, which means that it is not just a valid target, but also a necessary target, of an enemy trying to win. The Axis future was bleak in WWII (thankfully) after the USA entered, precisely because they could not touch our manufacturing.

The most that I can see adding would be orbitals that are purely for housing or farming.
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