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Uncompromising Honor chatter

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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by tlb   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:34 pm

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tlb wrote:Merging DNA can most likely be done in the test tube and so does not have anything to due with attraction. But it would undoubtedly be against the Beowulf Code.

If the biologists at Mesa could have had longer to study the treecat, then they would have tried to incorporate their results in a human genome.

cthia wrote:Of course not. It is a facetious notion meant to show how repulsive it is. Actually seeing the result of your species crossed as such, may be only slightly better than actually mating as such.

There is no reason to assume that the physical appearance would be off putting. There are certain animals that do not get cancer; if the basis for that could be isolated and put into humans, then most people would think that was a good thing - not at all repulsive. But it would still be against the Beowulf Code.

PS. The Forestry Service might well have a closely guarded repository with cat DNA.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by cthia   » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:53 pm

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tlb wrote:
tlb wrote:Merging DNA can most likely be done in the test tube and so does not have anything to due with attraction. But it would undoubtedly be against the Beowulf Code.

If the biologists at Mesa could have had longer to study the treecat, then they would have tried to incorporate their results in a human genome.

cthia wrote:Of course not. It is a facetious notion meant to show how repulsive it is. Actually seeing the result of your species crossed as such, may be only slightly better than actually mating as such.

There is no reason to assume that the physical appearance would be off putting. There are certain animals that do not get cancer; if the basis for that could be isolated and put into humans, then most people would think that was a good thing - not at all repulsive. But it would still be against the Beowulf Code.

PS. The Forestry Service might well have a closely guarded repository with cat DNA.

You are correct tlb. But I wasn't considering the resulting appearance being disgusting. Obviously the Honorverse has seen enough aberrations on the human genome that they're more prepared. However, there's a significant difference in breakthroughs in medicine brought on by these kinds of research than actually crossing human DNA into something else. The mere thought of that would disgust many people. A genie is still human. A human/animal cross breed would be neither to purists.

I'm under the impression that making a few changes on the genetic line of human DNA is a far cry from cross breeding human DNA with nonhuman DNA.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by aairfccha   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 am

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cthia wrote:You're absolutely correct that a mad scientist would hardly care about offending treecats or the Beowulf Code. Ahem, can we say the MAlign? But! I would assume that Cat DNA would be needed to effect the cross,
Which IIRC Manpower has had for a long time...
cthia wrote:and there's not a Cat alive that would go for that crap.
Which doesn't matter particularly much when the sample is already available
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:50 am

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aairfccha wrote:
cthia wrote:You're absolutely correct that a mad scientist would hardly care about offending treecats or the Beowulf Code. Ahem, can we say the MAlign? But! I would assume that Cat DNA would be needed to effect the cross,
Which IIRC Manpower has had for a long time...
cthia wrote:and there's not a Cat alive that would go for that crap.
Which doesn't matter particularly much when the sample is already available

If an attempt to cross is ever hatched, they'd want the trouble to be worth it by attaining the best characteristics and traits of the Cats. Without the Cat's cooperation, their empathic abilities would not be a part of the equation, let alone the many other ways the project would fall short. So why attempt a battle, lost before it begins?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by Daryl   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:41 am

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My first degree was in biochemistry and from that I'm sure that crossing species from totally different evolutionary trees would be impossible.
I know that the panspermia theories would imply that all life is related regardless of where they are found in the universe, but even if they are correct the subsequent evolution on different planets would ensure impossible differences. Humans and earth feline cats would be greatly closer related than either would be to a tree cat.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by ldwechsler   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:44 am

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Daryl wrote:My first degree was in biochemistry and from that I'm sure that crossing species from totally different evolutionary trees would be impossible.
I know that the panspermia theories would imply that all life is related regardless of where they are found in the universe, but even if they are correct the subsequent evolution on different planets would ensure impossible differences. Humans and earth feline cats would be greatly closer related than either would be to a tree cat.



We should note that ALMOST all cross species blends turn out to be mules in that they can't reproduce.

And donkeys and horses, to name the most common, are pretty close on the DNA tree.

Most of these things are unlikely. And most traits that are broader based (like an immunity to all cancers) are likely to be based on a combination of genes.

I would guess that putting in non-human genes by the time of Honor Harrington might have been tried and probably has been given up as a waste.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:58 am

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ldwechsler wrote:
Daryl wrote:My first degree was in biochemistry and from that I'm sure that crossing species from totally different evolutionary trees would be impossible.
I know that the panspermia theories would imply that all life is related regardless of where they are found in the universe, but even if they are correct the subsequent evolution on different planets would ensure impossible differences. Humans and earth feline cats would be greatly closer related than either would be to a tree cat.



We should note that ALMOST all cross species blends turn out to be mules in that they can't reproduce.

And donkeys and horses, to name the most common, are pretty close on the DNA tree.

Most of these things are unlikely. And most traits that are broader based (like an immunity to all cancers) are likely to be based on a combination of genes.

I would guess that putting in non-human genes by the time of Honor Harrington might have been tried and probably has been given up as a waste.


Well, for sake of argument, I was willing to entertain the possibility that Honorverse genengineering has leaped across pitfalls and stalls. Yet, without Treecats being onboard I think the project would be doomed. Mere samples of Cat DNA wouldn't be enough for such an ambitious project. You'd need actual Cats to test changes over a period of time, much like the MAlign does with its many lines, now. Sort of a bottom up approach.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by Peregrinator   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:06 pm

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I don't recall reading that Manpower/Mesa had managed to obtain treecat DNA. Where can one read that? For that matter, I don't recall reading that treecats even have DNA.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by tlb   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 pm

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Peregrinator wrote:I don't recall reading that Manpower/Mesa had managed to obtain treecat DNA. Where can one read that? For that matter, I don't recall reading that treecats even have DNA.

That cats have DNA was just an assumption, but there is a mention somewhere (not sure which book) that Manpower did have a treecat which quickly died. So if the cats have DNA, then they had a sample.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor chatter
Post by ldwechsler   » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:05 pm

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tlb wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:I don't recall reading that Manpower/Mesa had managed to obtain treecat DNA. Where can one read that? For that matter, I don't recall reading that treecats even have DNA.

That cats have DNA was just an assumption, but there is a mention somewhere (not sure which book) that Manpower did have a treecat which quickly died. So if the cats have DNA, then they had a sample.


And the DNA may be totally foreign to those of humans and other live forms that developed on Earth.
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