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Enemies of the Alignment

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Enemies of the Alignment
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:54 am

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I am thinking of people who have caused the Alignment severe strategic problems. This means fleet commanders, let alone ship commanders, aren’t important enough, no matter how good they are*, since they are usually not operating at the Grand National Strategy level.

1) The Winton Dynasty

It is not just Roger III and Elizabeth III. It is Elizabeth I (perhaps even her father, Roger I) on down. The Detweilers were doing long-range multigenerational planning, but the Wintons were also doing this and I think they started earlier. True, before the discovery of the junction, the scope of that planning was more narrow than afterwards. Even so, they spent generations building up Manticore’s industry and wealth. Thus, when Roger III and Elizabeth III built a navy capable of standing up to the People’s Navy, they built it on the sturdy foundation created by their predecessors. I suspect that the Alignment had no idea that a single star system polity, with a population of only 3 billion, could create that powerful of a navy.

2) Eliose Pritchart

Part of the Alignment’s plan was the corruption of the Republic of Haven, because, otherwise, it, not the Renaissance Factor, would have been the save haven the Verge would have rallied to when fleeing the embrace of OFS. Eloise has devoted her life to restoring Haven back to the shining city on the hill. It will take her longer than 5 years to succeed, but the effort itself puts the much of the Alignment strategy at risk. She had, also, declined to play the role the Alignment had assigned to her when operation Oyster Bay destroyed Manticore’s (and Grayson’s) space industry.

3) Jack McBryde and Herlander Simões

I am listing them because David Weber has stated that their defections were important. I am not entirely convinced, because I think much of the Detweiler Plan was already in trouble. However, Herlander did give Eliose a good reason for her trip to Manticore and help create the Grand Alliance.

* Some of Honor Harrington’s activities appeared to have annoyed Albrecht Detweiler far more than I think they should have.
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by cthia   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:05 am

cthia
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Zilwicki and Cachat. The Treecats.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by stewart   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:49 pm

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:I am thinking of people who have caused the Alignment severe strategic problems. This means fleet commanders, let alone ship commanders, aren’t important enough, no matter how good they are*, since they are usually not operating at the Grand National Strategy level.

1) The Winton Dynasty

It is not just Roger III and Elizabeth III. It is Elizabeth I (perhaps even her father, Roger I) on down. The Detweilers were doing long-range multigenerational planning, but the Wintons were also doing this and I think they started earlier. True, before the discovery of the junction, the scope of that planning was more narrow than afterwards. Even so, they spent generations building up Manticore’s industry and wealth. Thus, when Roger III and Elizabeth III built a navy capable of standing up to the People’s Navy, they built it on the sturdy foundation created by their predecessors. I suspect that the Alignment had no idea that a single star system polity, with a population of only 3 billion, could create that powerful of a navy.

2) Eliose Pritchart

Part of the Alignment’s plan was the corruption of the Republic of Haven, because, otherwise, it, not the Renaissance Factor, would have been the save haven the Verge would have rallied to when fleeing the embrace of OFS. Eloise has devoted her life to restoring Haven back to the shining city on the hill. It will take her longer than 5 years to succeed, but the effort itself puts the much of the Alignment strategy at risk. She had, also, declined to play the role the Alignment had assigned to her when operation Oyster Bay destroyed Manticore’s (and Grayson’s) space industry.

3) Jack McBryde and Herlander Simões

I am listing them because David Weber has stated that their defections were important. I am not entirely convinced, because I think much of the Detweiler Plan was already in trouble. However, Herlander did give Eliose a good reason for her trip to Manticore and help create the Grand Alliance.

* Some of Honor Harrington’s activities appeared to have annoyed Albrecht Detweiler far more than I think they should have.



------------------

Honor's activities irritated the Detweillers due to "lost opportunities" -- as reveled in UH, the Harrington Genome was a Alpha Line genome that got away.

Which brings up the question of how many other genomes got away due to a previous generation deciding to emigrate to Manticore, Haven, San Martin or Erewhon ???

-- Stewart
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by stewart   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:02 pm

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cthia wrote:Zilwicki and Cachat. The Treecats.


-------

The Treecats certainly; Anthology "More than Honor" / "The Stray" by Linda Evans notes one of several attempts by Mesa/Manpower (later shown as Alignment) to capture treecats for DNA and other sampling.

All 'Cats captured self-suicided before testing could start. Very frustrating for the Det's

-- Stewart
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by roseandheather   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:19 pm

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At this point I think there's a very good argument to be made that Honor is actually operating at the Grand National Strategy level by now.

Whether or not the MAlign knows that, however, is not at all certain.

Just food for thought. :mrgreen:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:36 pm

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:1) The Winton Dynasty
2) Eliose Pritchart
3) Jack McBryde and Herlander Simões
...

* Some of Honor Harrington’s activities appeared to have annoyed Albrecht Detweiler far more than I think they should have.


I think that the Detweilers reacted more to the "tactical" than the "strategic" -- more "personal" than "dynastic." Albrecht was I think the least reactive of the family, but that's like saying soapy water is wetter than pure water; you have to look very close to tell any difference.

Dynastic/Strategic considerations were treated as predictable, long-range management concerns. The actions of individuals deviated from the MAlign's planned progression of events, so those individuals -- Honor, Theisman, Terekhove, McBride/Simoes, etc -- produced ire disproportionate to their actual importance; their actions were treated as personal insults.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by stewart   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:46 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Robert_A_Woodward wrote:1) The Winton Dynasty
2) Eliose Pritchart
3) Jack McBryde and Herlander Simões
...

* Some of Honor Harrington’s activities appeared to have annoyed Albrecht Detweiler far more than I think they should have.


I think that the Detweilers reacted more to the "tactical" than the "strategic" -- more "personal" than "dynastic." Albrecht was I think the least reactive of the family, but that's like saying soapy water is wetter than pure water; you have to look very close to tell any difference.

Dynastic/Strategic considerations were treated as predictable, long-range management concerns. The actions of individuals deviated from the MAlign's planned progression of events, so those individuals -- Honor, Theisman, Terekhove, McBride/Simoes, etc -- produced ire disproportionate to their actual importance; their actions were treated as personal insults.



----------------

From the reactions of the Detweiller children(semi-clones), there appears to be an instability developing or coming to the surface. One which, if in any other line, might be a cause for culling or "trimming".
Unstable leadership will lead to seriously "flawed" decisions.

-- Stewart
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:47 pm

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Perfect understatement as usual, Rose.
She's a trusted friend of a member of the Andermani Emperor's inner circle..
She is an even closer advisor to Protector Benjamin as well as the hereditary commander of the Protector's Own Squadron or Grayson for a pocket battle fleet.
QEIII is closer yet and relies on her insights too.
Eloise Pritchart, mother of Haven's rebirth, is another close personal friend who relies on her advice.
After the Battle of Beowulf, Honor is also related to and close to Jacques Benton-Ramierez y Chou who will likely hold more authority on the Beowulf Board of Directors.

Those folks are the bulk of the Grand Alliance, the preeminent collection of allied polities in the Honorverse. Honor Harrington not only operates on an interstellar level, she likely has more individual influence on interstellar politics than anyone else in the galaxy.
roseandheather wrote:At this point I think there's a very good argument to be made that Honor is actually operating at the Grand National Strategy level by now.

Whether or not the MAlign knows that, however, is not at all certain.

Just food for thought. :mrgreen:
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by roseandheather   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:35 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Perfect understatement as usual, Rose.
She's a trusted friend of a member of the Andermani Emperor's inner circle..
She is an even closer advisor to Protector Benjamin as well as the hereditary commander of the Protector's Own Squadron or Grayson for a pocket battle fleet.
QEIII is closer yet and relies on her insights too.
Eloise Pritchart, mother of Haven's rebirth, is another close personal friend who relies on her advice.
After the Battle of Beowulf, Honor is also related to and close to Jacques Benton-Ramierez y Chou who will likely hold more authority on the Beowulf Board of Directors.

Those folks are the bulk of the Grand Alliance, the preeminent collection of allied polities in the Honorverse. Honor Harrington not only operates on an interstellar level, she likely has more individual influence on interstellar politics than anyone else in the galaxy.
roseandheather wrote:At this point I think there's a very good argument to be made that Honor is actually operating at the Grand National Strategy level by now.

Whether or not the MAlign knows that, however, is not at all certain.

Just food for thought. :mrgreen:


Don't forget that she's also a) a head of state in her own right (as Steadholder Harrington), b) a member of the Manticoran House of Lords, c) close friends with the Havenite Secretary of War and trusted implicitly by a sizable chunk of the Republic's Cabinet, d) on excellent terms with both halves of the Demonic Duo, aka the brain trust behind the entire Haven Sector's R&D department, e) longtime friends with the Imperial Governor-General of the Talbott Quadrant, and f) the best friend of the commanding officer of Tenth Fleet, aka the very, very pointiest bit of the RMN's sharp, Mesa-aimed stick.

Oh yeah, and she was the one who got the ball rolling on treecat-human communications.

No big deal. :mrgreen:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Enemies of the Alignment
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:40 pm

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See! You illustrated just how perfectly your understated posts ......understate!
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