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Manticore's new citizens

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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by Imaginos1892   » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:31 pm

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cthia wrote:What is the relative strength of the Medusans compared to, say, a San Martino. It appeared that a mass of charging Medusans were more than a formidable force against the Manties. If said mass was taught the skills and tactics of the Marines, they should become a very formidable ground assault troop, especially for the unwary enemy. Put them in battle armor and they should become even more dangerous. Also, battle armor made specifically for such a larger beast should be even more dangerous?

No! NO! NOOOOOO!!

DO NOT dig up that dead horse!! They've been beating it for 20 years!
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by stewart   » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:59 pm

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drothgery wrote:
stewart wrote:Just a couple of thoughts --

IIRC -- SKM (& SEM) hold the Baselisk SYSTEM but DO NOT own the territory on the Medusa planet surface -- Medusa is a Protectorate Status; that was the basis for the Havenite "trading" enclave and the plot reason for OBS;
SKM/SEM's primary territorial interest was the system and the Worm-hole Terminus.
As a result, the Medusans have tribal (local) self-governing. Perhaps a future anthology will hold a story of "expanded political interacting" by the Medusans. Thus far none seen.

That was the case in On Basilisk Station. However, the status of Basilisk was substantially revised in the aftermath of the events of that book. What was never put in any future book was how things ended up, IIRC.



------------

Politics has always been a rather smelly business -- maybe a few Medusans will give the SKM House of Lords, House of Commons and the SEM Imperial Parliament the appropriate aroma ....

-- Stewart
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by Theemile   » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:14 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
cthia wrote:What is the relative strength of the Medusans compared to, say, a San Martino. It appeared that a mass of charging Medusans were more than a formidable force against the Manties. If said mass was taught the skills and tactics of the Marines, they should become a very formidable ground assault troop, especially for the unwary enemy. Put them in battle armor and they should become even more dangerous. Also, battle armor made specifically for such a larger beast should be even more dangerous?

No! NO! NOOOOOO!!

DO NOT dig up that dead horse!! They've been beating it for 20 years!
———————————
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!


We soooo need a permanent dead horses list - with a brief explanation as why each are dead horses, to keep the noob necromancers away.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:40 pm

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NortonIDaughter wrote:
Celery itself isn't; the compound that Sphinxian celery shares with purple thorn is. 'Cats need one or the other (or one of the other modified fruits, like Marjorie Harrington's starfruit hybrid, that have it). Grayson must be importing and cultivating at least one of those things to sustain the local clan.

And who's paying these geneticists?

IIRC that was a trace element that was getting fixed in those plants. So even growing purple thorn in a Grayson dome might not produce the compound needed if the necessary base elements aren't present in sufficient abundance in the soil.


On the other hand it should be pretty simple to isolate the element and manufacture it as a dietary supplement - though that ties the cats into an ongoing dependency on the people who are manufacturing those vitamin supplements. It'd be better if geneticists could make plants capable of thriving in most environments and able to synthesize the necessary compound when given access to only common nutrients; without the need for specific trace elements -- but that may not be possible.
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by ldwechsler   » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:20 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
NortonIDaughter wrote:
Celery itself isn't; the compound that Sphinxian celery shares with purple thorn is. 'Cats need one or the other (or one of the other modified fruits, like Marjorie Harrington's starfruit hybrid, that have it). Grayson must be importing and cultivating at least one of those things to sustain the local clan.

And who's paying these geneticists?

IIRC that was a trace element that was getting fixed in those plants. So even growing purple thorn in a Grayson dome might not produce the compound needed if the necessary base elements aren't present in sufficient abundance in the soil.


On the other hand it should be pretty simple to isolate the element and manufacture it as a dietary supplement - though that ties the cats into an ongoing dependency on the people who are manufacturing those vitamin supplements. It'd be better if geneticists could make plants capable of thriving in most environments and able to synthesize the necessary compound when given access to only common nutrients; without the need for specific trace elements -- but that may not be possible.


Based on what they know about genetics, creating the celery should not be all that difficult. They know the element. They can actually import soil from Sphynx if need be for greenhouses but chances are some dedicated scientists can figure these things out for at least some planets.

The cats themselves might decide to spread out. They've gotten to know more people from different planets and worked with them. They might like to be on a lot of planets as a form of safety for the species.
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by Theemile   » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:08 am

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ldwechsler wrote:
Based on what they know about genetics, creating the celery should not be all that difficult. They know the element. They can actually import soil from Sphynx if need be for greenhouses but chances are some dedicated scientists can figure these things out for at least some planets.

The cats themselves might decide to spread out. They've gotten to know more people from different planets and worked with them. They might like to be on a lot of planets as a form of safety for the species.



Instead of soil, it would probably be easier just to add the specific element, like we do fertilizer.

However, we don't know that the compound isn't already readily available in other locals than Sphinx - the Celery was modified after all to grow on Sphinx which allowed the absorption of the mind chemical, so just bringing that strain it back to Earth might allow it to bond with the mind empowering compound normally found in terrestrial soil. We don't know what it is or how rare it actually is, so who can say.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:38 pm

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ldwechsler wrote:Based on what they know about genetics, creating the celery should not be all that difficult. They know the element. They can actually import soil from Sphynx if need be for greenhouses but chances are some dedicated scientists can figure these things out for at least some planets.

The cats themselves might decide to spread out. They've gotten to know more people from different planets and worked with them. They might like to be on a lot of planets as a form of safety for the species.

Sure that's would be easier genetically. Or frankly if the element is avalible in the soil or your adding it as a fertilizer you can probably just use Sphinxian celery without further modification.

I was just hoping that people could come up with a one time intervention that would then let the treecats take responsibility for continued supply of that additive. If the celery or whatever needs to rely on importing soil or applying specific additives as fertilizer then it keeps the 'cats more dependent on continued human intervention to maintain the developmental health of their offspring. (Well unless you imported enough soil to last for many decades; but even then the 'cats would be tied to farming just the specific area(s) where the imported soil was dumped)
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by Brigade XO   » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:41 pm

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It was my impression that the original (at least from the time if Stephanie Harrington) celery modifications that let it prosper on Sphinx let it take up the materials that led it to become a source of the nutrients that gave it a similar effect to Purple Thorn as far as the Treecats telepathic abilities were concerned.
Not clear if the Sphinxian variation of celery can now grow wild on Sphinx or if it still needs to be cultivated. If it will grow wild (or at least under cultivation by Treecats or humans out of doors) then it may be usable in soil of other planets where humans can live. That may or may not allow it to be the sulpliment for Purple Thorn on places like Grayson or Haven or anywhere else. About the only way to tell is do test plots on the planets in question. On Grayson that is going to have to be inside the domes that the Grayson cities use. Just another plant adapted to a differnt enviornment.
Harrington Stedding would be a logical place to start, it's the one with the largest resident population, at least prior to Treecats being used as bodyguards.
Of course, that also provides a somewhat greater chance that sombody else like the Alignment finding out that it is a critical part of Treecat diet directly affecting their empathic/telepathic abilites. We don't see any of the research that has been done to this point, just that many of the people who are now bonded with Treecats know that they need to include "celery" in the diets for their partners.
Same question about it being grown on Manticore. Even with the relative low expence of shipping it doesn't make all that much sence to depend on shipments of celery from Sphinx to Manticore to support Treecats there. The numbers involved for Treecats now makes it imperitive to provide a local source. If there is no signifcant difference of the Sphinian celery in taste to humans, then it becomes just another crop modification and you run with it.
HM Government (particularly the military) is going to want to make sure that all those bodyguard cats get enough of what supliments are nessisary to keep them healthy. So, yes, there is going to be research. It's just not something we are going to see in the books unless it becomes something getting woven into the plot lines.
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by kzt   » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:06 pm

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Theemile wrote:We soooo need a permanent dead horses list - with a brief explanation as why each are dead horses, to keep the noob necromancers away.

Poke at Duckk and see if he's interested.
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Re: Manticore's new citizens
Post by cthia   » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:31 pm

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kzt wrote:
Theemile wrote:We soooo need a permanent dead horses list - with a brief explanation as why each are dead horses, to keep the noob necromancers away.

Poke at Duckk and see if he's interested.


It certainly would be a decent start. And considerate. Newbies are essential to any author's bottom line and they don't deserve to be disrespected because they represent the definition of a newbie. Doing so would be worse than the Havenites shooting their own officer corp in the ass. All of you were newbies yourself at some point.

If there are subjects that shouldn't be broached, a heads up display is at least in order. If the more appropriate common decency and sense of fair play is too much to muster. Laying fucking landmines that can be stepped on by a newbie is uncivilized. Then you have the nerve and audacity to be pissed off at the newbie for stepping on a landmine that he's not responsible for. Like the grav lance incident that got me torn a new ass by the author because assholes that came before me pissed in his Corn Flakes over the damn thing for years before said newbie even knew what a Weber was. FUCK THAT and THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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