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When did Honor become the MVP?

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by tlb   » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:13 pm

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tlb wrote:MVP may generally be annual in sports; but that is because sports have seasons. In an ongoing activity, such as war, it may be that someone stays MVP until their accomplishments are exceeded by someone else..

Weird Harold wrote:Time magazine doesn't call their annual cover-person a MVP, but the concept is the same. Nobel prize winners aren't called MVPs, but the concept is the same.

ESPYs aren't called MVPs, but the concept is the same.

There are innumerable awards that are periodic, independent of anything except the calendar.

Something that takes place each year is an annual event (Time magazine specifically says it is "of the year').

This war is a single multi-year event; so you could name a yearly MVP, but you do not have to do so. Or maybe you break it up whenever the primary opponent changes. It is a matter of choice how anyone wishes to proceed; I only stated that there is another way for something that is aperiodic.
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by WLBjork   » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:43 am

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Dauntless wrote:
cthia wrote:
Another reason I considered that Honor may have influenced Alice's tactics is because there was a tendency to exchange mail and Alice and Honor were rather fond of each other. I also seem to recall one of Honor's very dearest inner circle being tapped for that command. Tremaine. Which offers up another avenue for Honor's teachings to have effected LAC strategy.


Scotty didn't get Command of a LAC wing until after the return from Hades, at least 6 months more like a year after Truman and Harmon started working out how to actually use the lovely LACs the Tax Payers had bought for them.

again I point you to the time line. even assuming Alice had been informed she was to take command of the RMN's first proper carrier while Honor was still in the SKM and likely to be there for a while yet, it was early in ecohes of Honor that we even see Mintour and at that time she didn't have her LACs. most of which were delivered via freighter to Hancock after Minotaur got there.

there is a minimum of 12 months (more like 18 months) between Honor leaving for Grayson and work up trails for both carrier and wing. A year in which honor was insanely busy with taking command of her squadron, early! which meant even more effort needed. Then not long after she left on convoy escort she is captured and is VERY incommunicado.

so again I say: Did honor help with the basic ideas? very possibly (maybe even likely) but Alice and Jackie had to take theory and make it work without Honor's input, her being presumed dead etc.

now after Honor and Co returned it is very likely that Honor helped Alice refine the basic ideas, in light of the actual combat data they now had.

but my point is that Honor may have helped Alice but credit for making the LAC swarm concept really work by doing the hardest part, taking the idea from theory to an actual workable weapon, goes to Alice Truman and Jackie Harmon.


Slight nit-pick with your timeline:

Honor assumes command early after tearing a strip off White Haven for venting his spleen on the recommendations of the WDB that Honor had led.

At this time, the process was no more than a few months along - it's unlikely that the hull for HMS Minotaur had been laid down at this point.

Somehow in the three to four years or so that Honor was sorting out the squadron, escorting the JMNT convoy, getting captured, shipped off to Tourville's fleet base, short-stopped by Ransom and redirected to Hades, escaped and blew up a battle-cruiser, contacted Camp Inferno, liberated the planet then captured the shipping and escaped to Trevor's Star (phew!) Minotaur was built, equipped with LACs and tied up in endless exercises until the Havenite attack which went a little awry.

Furthermore, both Truman and Harmon had had previous experience with LAC carriers as both were assigned to Honor's task-force in Silesia, so they weren't coming at the idea completely cold so to speak.

So yes, Minotaur and her LACs were worked up - and the Book written - without a lot of Honor's direct input - but both officers were of the same "train harder than you intend to fight" school as Honor anyway - so they would probably think along parallel lines anyway.
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by cthia   » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:02 pm

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I planned this weekend for a read of UH. Got started and the necessities of life intervened. I've been volunteering to help clean up damage from the hurricane visited upon senior citizens up and down the East coast.

The one thing I want to know in UH is did they finally send my baby off packing! In Flag in Exile, iinm, Theisman embarrassed me in my Manticoran persona when he said to Honor, paraphrasing "They shouldn't have sent you way out here and left you alone with such a weak force, My Lady. They should have dressed you better."

Did she finally get her travel plans booked first class? IOW, I'm interested in her force mix. I'll get to it.

The Graysons would never send her off wanting.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by ldwechsler   » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:46 am

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cthia wrote:I planned this weekend for a read of UH. Got started and the necessities of life intervened. I've been volunteering to help clean up damage from the hurricane visited upon senior citizens up and down the East coast.

The one thing I want to know in UH is did they finally send my baby off packing! In Flag in Exile, iinm, Theisman embarrassed me in my Manticoran persona when he said to Honor, paraphrasing "They shouldn't have sent you way out here and left you alone with such a weak force, My Lady. They should have dressed you better."

Did she finally get her travel plans booked first class? IOW, I'm interested in her force mix. I'll get to it.

The Graysons would never send her off wanting.


Do not worry. Read the book already!
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by cthia   » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:37 am

cthia
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kzt wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:ETA: Who would be the contenders (top three) for MVP each year since 1900PD through 1922PD?

We don't know enough to say.


Weird Harold wrote:Not for every year, but for the major events (battles) we can make a fair guess most of the time.

We know enough to speculate.

Interesting Harold. Of course, to lessen the risk of riling the author's ire again, I should probably keep it to myself that I believe from 1900 PD - Present, it was Harrington -- beginning immediately at the moment she limped back from Yeltsin. BUT! I'm willing to entertain White Haven for 1900 PD with Honor at least honorably mentioned, but I won't be responsible for the many boos from the audience. LOL

Even though she's never worn a uniform, Beth may deserve a year or two as well as Courvosier. Especially the time during which the author has the nerve and audacity to claim Honor still wasn't the Cat's meow -- except to the Cats that is. And White Haven had to be jerked up short by Honor and was busy getting his head handed to him by McQueen . . .

I withdraw that last statement Your Honor err God err Weber! LOL

To the 'Cats, Honor is the MVP since Stephanie.

To the Graysons Honor is the MVP since 1900 PD.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by cthia   » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:45 am

cthia
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There was never a time Honor wasn't worth her weight of metal or was the MVP of the system she was in. Even before she completely settled into a raped Fearless and left for Yeltsin system, she was the MVP of the War Games.

Honor was even MVP each and every time she was simply Flag Beotch.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:31 am

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cthia wrote: ...Even before she completely settled into a raped Fearless and left for Yeltsin system, ...


The HMS Fearless was NOT the same ship as the HMS Fearless she rode to a Pyrrhic victory in Basilisk. That was a brand-new ship named for the first.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by munroburton   » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:53 am

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cthia wrote:she was the MVP of the War Games.


Uh, nope. She did pull off one good ambush with the grav lance, but in the subsequent twelve or fourteen war game rounds, Fearless was "destroyed" and only in one of those did they manage to also "destroy" a target.

Indeed, this lack of results was used as justification to reassign Fearless to Basilisk...
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by cthia   » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:50 am

cthia
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munroburton wrote:
cthia wrote:she was the MVP of the War Games.


Uh, nope. She did pull off one good ambush with the grav lance, but in the subsequent twelve or fourteen war game rounds, Fearless was "destroyed" and only in one of those did they manage to also "destroy" a target.

Indeed, this lack of results was used as justification to reassign Fearless to Basilisk...

Still using the metric system to weigh the human element 'eh?

Oh come on! You've got to grade her on a curve. She deserves a handicap, since her ship was handicapped. She was a plain old Commodore who took out an Admiral? She popped an admiral?

"Take that!"

She performed flawlessly and spectacularly in the first round. Well, she only had a one round weapon then everyone was gunning for her, "keying on her" in gridiron jargon. Yet, who do you think everyone was talking about on the grapevine after the Games? Yep, Harrington!

A Commodore with a newly acquired, raped, aging light crusier making her mark!

Yes, Fearless took her lumps and Honor took hers and both were banished to the Basilisk System as a result. But she still gets my vote as the MVP of the War Games for doing the impossible. As a Commodore! In an aging, raped Light Cruiser.

Rid yourself of the metric system when measuring the human element, k?

LOL

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: When did Honor become the MVP?
Post by cthia   » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:00 am

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote: ...Even before she completely settled into a raped Fearless and left for Yeltsin system, ...


The HMS Fearless was NOT the same ship as the HMS Fearless she rode to a Pyrrhic victory in Basilisk. That was a brand-new ship named for the first.

Me 'pologies. I consistently mix the two Fearlesses up. Both took a beating and she limped back home each time, iirc? I really need a reread of the entire series. I can do that now that the last book is still hot off the press, still awaiting me to absorb it, slowly, like the last bottle of a very rare fine wine. I seem to be reluctant to partake of the wine. There's a certain sadness to it being the last few drops of goodness to end a 25 year old history.

BTW, I just recently found out that the US Navy had both a Fearless and an Ajax. I'm sure everyone here is aware of that.

Only me be Johnny come lately. :?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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