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Where Next for the GSN?

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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Theemile   » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:56 pm

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cthia wrote:Grayson can't afford to rest on its laurels or fall asleep at the wheel. They are quite familiar with a government's changing of the guard. The SEM can fall prey to many other High Ridge type governments. Grayson has to squirrel away for another rainy day while it isn't raining. Politically and financially.

I'd like to think they will bring their peripheral tech up to par. A holotank setting like that found on Sag Isle. Not sure if they have that now. An accredited officer school on planet - a worthy tactics and strategy training program. Planet wide integration of the female complement. Grayson has plenty of smaller, though not less important things they can occupy themselves with now that the war is over.

Their own version of the Crusher.


According to HoS, Grayson now has it's own Space Academy back up and running.

For the first decade after Grayson joined the Manticoran Alliance, all GSN officers attended the RMN Academy on Saganami Island, and the majority of them continue to do so. In 1920, however, the revamped Isaiah Mackenzie Naval Academy, the traditional source of the GSN’s officer corps, reopened with a thoroughly modernized curriculum and up-to-date training facilities. Doctrine and Training Command has been deeply involved with coursework design for Saganami Island from the very first, and was instrumental in designing the new Mackenzie curriculum and in recruiting visiting Manticoran professors.



So chances are they have a variant of the Crusher and all the most advanced training hardware (giant Holotanks) to turn out Saganami quality officers.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by cthia   » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:02 pm

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Theemile wrote:
cthia wrote:Grayson can't afford to rest on its laurels or fall asleep at the wheel. They are quite familiar with a government's changing of the guard. The SEM can fall prey to many other High Ridge type governments. Grayson has to squirrel away for another rainy day while it isn't raining. Politically and financially.

I'd like to think they will bring their peripheral tech up to par. A holotank setting like that found on Sag Isle. Not sure if they have that now. An accredited officer school on planet - a worthy tactics and strategy training program. Planet wide integration of the female complement. Grayson has plenty of smaller, though not less important things they can occupy themselves with now that the war is over.

Their own version of the Crusher.


According to HoS, Grayson now has it's own Space Academy back up and running.

For the first decade after Grayson joined the Manticoran Alliance, all GSN officers attended the RMN Academy on Saganami Island, and the majority of them continue to do so. In 1920, however, the revamped Isaiah Mackenzie Naval Academy, the traditional source of the GSN’s officer corps, reopened with a thoroughly modernized curriculum and up-to-date training facilities. Doctrine and Training Command has been deeply involved with coursework design for Saganami Island from the very first, and was instrumental in designing the new Mackenzie curriculum and in recruiting visiting Manticoran professors.



So chances are they have a variant of the Crusher and all the most advanced training hardware (giant Holotanks) to turn out Saganami quality officers.


Thanks a bunch for the info! I always thought it was not only prudent but inevitable. Graysons have always been particular about their education, and whereas the Mayhew Restoration is changing a significant part of Grayson society, resistance is au naturel and change is slow. Particular change can be even slower. Uppity Graysons may still have a hard time allowing their daughters into the military, but they sure as heck aren't going to want them to attend courses on Manticore as early as grade school. Grayson needed its own accredited program badly.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by cthia   » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:52 pm

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Something occurred to me. How can Grayson possibly entertain a build down when there have been no less than four battles in Yeltsin? Isn't that a record in the Honorverse?

Is it a bit ironic or apropos that hell consistently comes to roost in that "religious star system?"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by jtg452   » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:50 pm

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cthia wrote:Something occurred to me. How can Grayson possibly entertain a build down when there have been no less than four battles in Yeltsin? Isn't that a record in the Honorverse?

Is it a bit ironic or apropos that hell consistently comes to roost in that "religious star system?"

You left out the Blackbird Strike and all the Masadan attacks prior to the Manticore treaty.

Graysons aren't stupid and, when you've had your front door kicked in that many times, a healthy dose of preparation would to be expected.

Normally, I would have called it paranoia but it's only paranoia if nobody is out to get you and Grayson has survived too many attacks to call it paranoia. With that kind of history behind them, you really can't blame them for defending well and in extreme depth and a lot of overlap and redundancies.

Like I said, I think there will be a downsizing but it will be more trimming off the fat than a gutting of the GSN. Old units get deactivated and the bleeding edge technologically speaking units get kept and will continue to be built until they are at a force level that satisfies their level necessary of comfort.

Considering their history, it's gonna take a LOT to make them comfortable. I wouldn't want to come over the hyperlimit with ill intentions in ANY GSN held system much less Yeltson itself. You start backing a GSN formation up against a wall and soembody quoting Yanakov's, 'Harrington and no mercy.' from Basilik is likely to be broadcast in the clear on an all ships frequency.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by ldwechsler   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:44 am

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jtg452 wrote:
cthia wrote:Something occurred to me. How can Grayson possibly entertain a build down when there have been no less than four battles in Yeltsin? Isn't that a record in the Honorverse?

Is it a bit ironic or apropos that hell consistently comes to roost in that "religious star system?"

You left out the Blackbird Strike and all the Masadan attacks prior to the Manticore treaty.

Graysons aren't stupid and, when you've had your front door kicked in that many times, a healthy dose of preparation would to be expected.

Normally, I would have called it paranoia but it's only paranoia if nobody is out to get you and Grayson has survived too many attacks to call it paranoia. With that kind of history behind them, you really can't blame them for defending well and in extreme depth and a lot of overlap and redundancies.

Like I said, I think there will be a downsizing but it will be more trimming off the fat than a gutting of the GSN. Old units get deactivated and the bleeding edge technologically speaking units get kept and will continue to be built until they are at a force level that satisfies their level necessary of comfort.

Considering their history, it's gonna take a LOT to make them comfortable. I wouldn't want to come over the hyperlimit with ill intentions in ANY GSN held system much less Yeltson itself. You start backing a GSN formation up against a wall and soembody quoting Yanakov's, 'Harrington and no mercy.' from Basilik is likely to be broadcast in the clear on an all ships frequency.


Agreed. Some older ships will be decommissioned, although we should remember that there really aren't any really old ships. The first ships really being done for Grayson came about with Manticoran help after Honor eon the battle in Honor of the Queen. So essentially none are more than 20 years old.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Dauntless   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:22 am

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true but any warship which was designed let alone built and commissioned before the end of the first haven war that isn't a SD(P) or CLAC is pretty much obsolete, as it likely lacks off bore firing, DDMs and numerous small but important upgrades.

so anything that isn't a Roland, Sag C, Avalon or Nike, CLAC or SD(P) at the very least will be mothballed. really the avalon should go as well given their inability to use DDMs that aren't pod launched but that is a discussion for another thread.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by jtg452   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:40 pm

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Dauntless wrote:true but any warship which was designed let alone built and commissioned before the end of the first haven war that isn't a SD(P) or CLAC is pretty much obsolete, as it likely lacks off bore firing, DDMs and numerous small but important upgrades.

so anything that isn't a Roland, Sag C, Avalon or Nike, CLAC or SD(P) at the very least will be mothballed. really the avalon should go as well given their inability to use DDMs that aren't pod launched but that is a discussion for another thread.

That is my thinking, too. Keeping older ships makes no sense when they are a liability in combat and their most excellent crews could be used in more effective ships. Keep them until they can be replaced but no longer than necessary.

I can see the Protectors Own converting from Havenite captures to a more standard formation as hull become available, too. Even if they go 1 for 1 and don't reduce the numbers, modern automation will produce an excess of experienced, tech savvy personnel that is sorely needed in the private sector.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Somtaaw   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:04 pm

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Dauntless wrote:true but any warship which was designed let alone built and commissioned before the end of the first haven war that isn't a SD(P) or CLAC is pretty much obsolete, as it likely lacks off bore firing, DDMs and numerous small but important upgrades.

so anything that isn't a Roland, Sag C, Avalon or Nike, CLAC or SD(P) at the very least will be mothballed. really the avalon should go as well given their inability to use DDMs that aren't pod launched but that is a discussion for another thread.



Grayson's built nearly every modern ships ahead of the RMN, and if you exclude the testbed CLAC Minotaur they DID build everything first except the very latest Invictus class podnoughts.

And even there, even though Grayson didn't build it first, if the RMN managed to build an entire series of Invictus before Yawata, then I'm pretty sure the GSN also has a flight's worth of the Invictus podnoughts swanning around Yeltsin.

Given the population in Yeltsin being heavily female, and how they wanted to restrict women to wallers only, I don't think there's going to be many Grayson-only ships below heavy cruiser. So the GSN will be primarily Sag-C, Courvosier-II BCP's, CLAC, and podnought, with Katana's providing the missile defense that would normally be coming from Roland's.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Dauntless   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:29 pm

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while I don't disagree we do have text ev that at least some Grayson born women are being posted to ships as small as destroyers.

can't remember exactly what class but it wasn't a roland so it can't be much bigger then 100K, and there were only two women both Ensigns.

still the fact that they had any Grason born women on anything smaller then a BC shows the GSN is finally starting to make some real traction on starting to integrate them below the wall
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Somtaaw   » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:50 pm

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Dauntless wrote:while I don't disagree we do have text ev that at least some Grayson born women are being posted to ships as small as destroyers.

can't remember exactly what class but it wasn't a roland so it can't be much bigger then 100K, and there were only two women both Ensigns.

still the fact that they had any Grason born women on anything smaller then a BC shows the GSN is finally starting to make some real traction on starting to integrate them below the wall


Think those were just the short stories, but when you compare the Grayson male to female population, what we might actually wind up with (in the end), are the superdreadnoughts possibly being almost mostly female crewed simply due to how the birthrates are still 75% female. Invictus podnoughts have almost 1000 crew, assuming Grayson reaches true equality that works out to almost 750 females aboard a podnought, to only 250 men.

Grayson's fleet has been waller heavy ever since Flag in Exile, so simple numbers mean if they want to keep their waller heavy fleet, they need bodies to crew them. The fact that wallers are also the best protected ships in space is simply icing on the cake, to help convince their conservatives to sign off on it "your daughters are going to serve no matter what you say. Do you want them to be serving aboard a soft and weak destroyer, or do you want them on a podnought?" sort of horse-trading.
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