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Where Next for the GSN?

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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Theemile   » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:52 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I doubt that the GSN will continue building new ships. There shipyards have been blown into dust bunnies anyway.

The GSN will NOT be mothballing SD(P)s. The ships have already been paid for along with their ammo load out and any reloads. They employ intensive automation which greatly reduces operational cost.

Some CLACs and their LACs will remain operational while others go into reserve. Reason is that LACs are attrition units ill suited to normal anti piracy operations.

The GSN WILL mothball or decommission their menagerie of captured, cast off or escaped from Hell warships. These units are a logistical as well maintainance nightmare not to mention not up to modern standards.

The GSN WILL mothball their new build, prepod SDs including Benjamin the Great.

The GSN will do some serious triage on their newer build below the wall units. Their Mark 16 armed, Rolland DDs, Saganami Cs and Nikes will be retained. After the slaughter at Hypatia, earlier designs that use single drive missiles will be the first to be mothballed.

I expect that the GSN WILL retain their considerable fleet of BC(P)s. Say all you want about relative survivability but a ship armed with MDMs or even Mk-16 DDMs have such an enormuse range and lethality advantage over ships armed with single drive missiles that loosing them would be insane.

Now which ship will be commanded by Commander Abigail Hearnes?


I would recommend reading HoS. many of the details you seek are there,

All the Ex-Havenite stuff is gone or in the reserve formations. Too difficult and expensive to keep up, non-standard and being of poor quality to boot.

All the older Manticore gifts are in reserve or retired.

Grayson's interwar sub wall consisted of 20 DDs, 40 CLs, 60 CAs, and 40 BC(p)s, with 32 BCs, with 28 BCs in reserve (all the gifts, the Havenite stuff, and the Manticore builds).

In HOS, Grayson was busy building their Roland (17+), Avalon (52+) and Saganami (17+) analogues in 1921, post war, they will probably retire their 1st war builds and retain the same structure in modern designs - if they have sufficient #s to do so.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:35 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:...If nothing else, Benjamin ...


Benjamin is old and getting older. Who is going to be making such decisions when he's gone. Please be mindful of spoilers when responding.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by kzt   » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:08 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:Who is going to be making such decisions when he's gone. Please be mindful of spoilers when responding.

Whoever survives the traditional series of worldwide televised succession knifefights. :shock:
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:12 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:...If nothing else, Benjamin ...


Benjamin is old and getting older. Who is going to be making such decisions when he's gone. Please be mindful of spoilers when responding.


He is not that old. I believe he was in his 30s in _The Honor of the Queen_ and _Uncompromising Honor_ is only 2 decades later. If the sequel series starts after another 2 decade gap; Benjamin will be in his 70s, if alive (and I think the chances are good).
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Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by ldwechsler   » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:25 am

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:...If nothing else, Benjamin ...


Benjamin is old and getting older. Who is going to be making such decisions when he's gone. Please be mindful of spoilers when responding.


He is not that old. I believe he was in his 30s in _The Honor of the Queen_ and _Uncompromising Honor_ is only 2 decades later. If the sequel series starts after another 2 decade gap; Benjamin will be in his 70s, if alive (and I think the chances are good).[/quote]

Benjamin now has a son. The son, all other things being equal, will inherit his post. Chances are that thanks to Allison Harrington, more boy babies will be born. She might quietly arrange for another son for Benjamin as well.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by drothgery   » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:29 pm

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ldwechsler wrote:Benjamin now has a son. The son, all other things being equal, will inherit his post. Chances are that thanks to Allison Harrington, more boy babies will be born. She might quietly arrange for another son for Benjamin as well.

I think he has two boys, now.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by jtg452   » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:58 pm

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First, the Protector's Own isn't going anywhere. It's not a national formation. It's not part of the GSN. They wear Mayhew colors instead of Grayson blue because they serve Benjamin Mayhew in his role as Protector. They are the personal mailed fist of the Head of State of Grayson. Think of them as the most heavily armed group of housekarls in human history.

I can see them downsizing their personnel numbers in conjunction with updating their ships. Their Havenite ships are more crew intensive than modern designs, so they can upgrade their lethality and still downsize the overall personnel requirements. I can see them converting to homegrown ships but I think the Manty-Havenite hybrids coming out of Bolthole would be likely as well.

The GSN isn't going to beat their grazers into plowshares and start selling demilled Katanas as in-system runabouts.

Part of the Test is preparation and there's still the memory of the Masadan wars floating around in their institutional memory. While they will HAVE to downsize, that doesn't mean they are going to convert everything into razor blades any time soon.

Imagine there will be a heavy culling of older units. If it's more than a generation or two from cutting edge, I think it has an appointment with the breakers. Some may linger for a while until replacements can be built but they are gonna go.

I seriously doubt the cuts will be as deep as some seem to think. The Grayson Home Fleet isn't going to be a couple armsmen in a shuttle. I would not suggest coming over the Wall with ill intent.


While the bulk of the active GSN will probably be in the Home Fleet, I can see at least 1/3 out of the system in commerce protection (probably in conjunction with the Manties), showing the flag or working with allied navies- both GA and non-GA.

There HAS to be a downsizing of the GSN. Grayson can't afford not to economically or otherwise.

They had a low population in comparison to more modern star nation's, they didn't have prolong until quite recently so those that were alive didn't live nearly as long, they have their genetic anomaly to overcome AND they are still a male dominated society.

That means that the vast majority of their losses were the rare male Grayson. The Navy is going to have to dowsize just to release men back to the civilian world to get married and have kids.

Their educational system has made strides in the last decades but the GSN is full of people that are trained and familiar with the latest tech. The losses in the Oyster Bay strikes have to be made up some place and, while they may not be trained in the specific needs, they are closer than grabbing the steader off the street and starting from scratch.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by ldwechsler   » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:41 pm

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jtg452 wrote:First, the Protector's Own isn't going anywhere. It's not a national formation. It's not part of the GSN. They wear Mayhew colors instead of Grayson blue because they serve Benjamin Mayhew in his role as Protector. They are the personal mailed fist of the Head of State of Grayson. Think of them as the most heavily armed group of housekarls in human history.

I can see them downsizing their personnel numbers in conjunction with updating their ships. Their Havenite ships are more crew intensive than modern designs, so they can upgrade their lethality and still downsize the overall personnel requirements. I can see them converting to homegrown ships but I think the Manty-Havenite hybrids coming out of Bolthole would be likely as well.

The GSN isn't going to beat their grazers into plowshares and start selling demilled Katanas as in-system runabouts.

Part of the Test is preparation and there's still the memory of the Masadan wars floating around in their institutional memory. While they will HAVE to downsize, that doesn't mean they are going to convert everything into razor blades any time soon.

Imagine there will be a heavy culling of older units. If it's more than a generation or two from cutting edge, I think it has an appointment with the breakers. Some may linger for a while until replacements can be built but they are gonna go.

I seriously doubt the cuts will be as deep as some seem to think. The Grayson Home Fleet isn't going to be a couple armsmen in a shuttle. I would not suggest coming over the Wall with ill intent.


While the bulk of the active GSN will probably be in the Home Fleet, I can see at least 1/3 out of the system in commerce protection (probably in conjunction with the Manties), showing the flag or working with allied navies- both GA and non-GA.

There HAS to be a downsizing of the GSN. Grayson can't afford not to economically or otherwise.

They had a low population in comparison to more modern star nation's, they didn't have prolong until quite recently so those that were alive didn't live nearly as long, they have their genetic anomaly to overcome AND they are still a male dominated society.

That means that the vast majority of their losses were the rare male Grayson. The Navy is going to have to dowsize just to release men back to the civilian world to get married and have kids.

Their educational system has made strides in the last decades but the GSN is full of people that are trained and familiar with the latest tech. The losses in the Oyster Bay strikes have to be made up some place and, while they may not be trained in the specific needs, they are closer than grabbing the steader off the street and starting from scratch.


It might be a very long time before The Protector's Own dissolves. Most of its members have prolong. A lot of them have been on Cerberus. To a large degree, the fleet has become their new home.

And I doubt there will be a quick build-down in the fleet. First of all, coming from a planet it's not all that expensive. Once ships are built, they are not all that expensive to run, comparatively speaking.

Upgrades will be done. New ships will be built as tech demands it. Yes, there will be automation but keep in mind that LACs are very crew intensive.

And while there may be a twenty year gap between real wars, there will be some pirates and, well, Silesia still needs to be fully civilized.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:21 pm

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Grayson can't afford to rest on its laurels or fall asleep at the wheel. They are quite familiar with a government's changing of the guard. The SEM can fall prey to many other High Ridge type governments. Grayson has to squirrel away for another rainy day while it isn't raining. Politically and financially.

I'd like to think they will bring their peripheral tech up to par. A holotank setting like that found on Sag Isle. Not sure if they have that now. An accredited officer school on planet - a worthy tactics and strategy training program. Planet wide integration of the female complement. Grayson has plenty of smaller, though not less important things they can occupy themselves with now that the war is over.

Their own version of the Crusher.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by jtg452   » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:58 pm

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ldwechsler wrote:
It might be a very long time before The Protector's Own dissolves. Most of its members have prolong. A lot of them have been on Cerberus. To a large degree, the fleet has become their new home.

And I doubt there will be a quick build-down in the fleet. First of all, coming from a planet it's not all that expensive. Once ships are built, they are not all that expensive to run, comparatively speaking.

Upgrades will be done. New ships will be built as tech demands it. Yes, there will be automation but keep in mind that LACs are very crew intensive.

And while there may be a twenty year gap between real wars, there will be some pirates and, well, Silesia still needs to be fully civilized.


I never said anything about the Protector's Own going away. I can see them updating and slimming down a little but not going away. Again, they are the most dangerous group of housekarls in human history. They are the household troops of the ruler of Grayson.
They serve the Protector. None of the Mayhews currently alive (and few of the dead ones from what has been said of previous generations) are dumb enough to disband them.

Those Ceberus survivors range widely in age. Some had been there since the pre Manty war conquests of the Havenite expansion. Many will stay but some have gotten long enough in the tooth to want to swallow the anchor and set up on the beach again. The majority are Grayson s, so they are needed just like the GSN personnel in civilian roles.

Even if they just update their Wall and BC's, how many bodies is that freeimg up?
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