Where Next for the GSN?

Ever heard of "combined Arms"?

There is no single system or weapon type that is the answer to all needs. You need a mix of systems that cover eachothers weakness'.

Also, Grayson has never gone all in for any one weapons system. Assuming they would now defies Grayson's human nature and their inherant view of warfare.

This thread is "Where Next for the GSN?"
Not "What would you do if you ran the GSN?"

You are projecting your ideas rather than analysing how Grayson will probably act based on their idealogy and capabilities - a very common intelligence mistake.

[Retired USN Intel Spec]

tlb wrote:PS. Have you read up on Mycroft yet?

Relax wrote:TLB: IF you don't even know what mycroft is yourself, as it has to have physical control nodes which must be armored with active defenses to not be easily picked off, and RFC wrote about this in AAC, time to put you on ignore.

I only asked because you called it an offensive weapon; whereas RFC called it a top of the line system defence. Also At All Costs does not mention Mycroft, it describes Moriarty (as in chapter 37):

In Arthur orbit, the installation codenamed Moriarty came fully on-line for the first time. It wasn't a very huge installation. In fact, it was no larger than a heavy cruiser, and it had been transported in two prefabricated modules aboard a fleet supply ship, then assembled in place in less than forty-eight hours.
As warship tonnages went, four hundred thousand wasn't a lot . . . unless all of it was dedicated to fire control.
Moriarty was Shannon Foraker's system defense answer to the individual inferiority of the Republic's missile pods. The control station was a flat, light-drinking black, constructed of radar absorbent materials. It was almost impossible to detect, as long as it practiced strict emission-control discipline, and the Manticoran recon arrays had missed it entirely.
Now it reached out through the other innocent-looking orbital platforms which had been seeded about the system at the same time. Each of those platforms was, in effect, a less capable, simpler minded version of the RMN's own Keyholes. They formed a network, an expanding spray of tentacles, which gave Moriarty literally thousands of fire control telemetry links. And what those links lacked in Manticoran-style sophistication they made up in numbers, because they could control the missiles assigned to them without break all the way to their targets.
Moriarty had only one real weakness, aside from the fact that if it had been detected, killing it would have been relatively simple. That weakness was the light-speed limitation on its telemetry. It simply couldn't provide real-time corrections as its missiles raced down range. On the other hand, neither could Honor's telemetry links. Aside from the superior seeking systems and more capable AIs aboard the Manticoran missiles, the accuracy playing field had just been leveled.

I don’t think there is any reason a fort can’t mount a hyperdrive. Might be wrong.

kzt wrote:I don’t think there is any reason a fort can’t mount a hyperdrive. Might be wrong.

At one point, people were talking about prefab forts that would be assembled in place. I thought it would more useful to assemble them at the factory with hyperdrive and fly them into place. That idea did not get any traction.

Montrose Toast wrote:This thread is "Where Next for the GSN?"
Not "What would you do if you ran the GSN?"
[Retired USN Intel Spec]

No one has said anything about going all in on one weapons system.

Where next for the GSN: As I said before: SHRINKING in size to meet basic economic necessity. Oyster Bay only took a 1000ton hammer to this point made by Benjamin way back in War of Honor. Destroying the last 2 decades of Space Orbital Industrial Growth and killing off the ENTIRE workforce who knew how to use it completely eliminated any ability of the GSN to operate offensively as the GSN has zero logistical support. Begging for spare parts does not work. Especially...(spoiler...)... Unlike in Honor of the Queen, Grayson does not have this giant existing space work force to build new weapons etc as they just got killed. Those they do have are around their orbital farms.a

Economic necessity means eliminating weapons systems saving big time $$$ in rebuilding logistics/training requirements. Sorry legacy ships of all classes: you are GONZO! Then start laying up ships shrinking the need for new training replacements. Those guys will be used to rebuild the infrastructure.

AND: Increase Gross system Product to keep your toys operational where you somehow buy on a massive loan from Beowulf/Haven/Manticore.... which is why I brought up Sky Domes and farming to keep hammering home that point. Free up manpower to pursue more profitable endeavors to more quickly rebuild and create profit--> to create taxes--> to pay for new logistics/manufacturing infrastructure to support the GSN ships.

In either case, outside of small ship action, the GSN is eliminated from the spaceways outside of loaner officers/crew for the next decade and so is Manticore. If they aren't then why in the first 10 books did it take so long to build infrastructure and ships???..... if you can snap your fingers and a multitude of orbital cities magically appear with the ability to build ships...

Sorry, can't have it both ways. And if it is the LAST position, then there is no reason the Renaissance Factor should not be able to build several hundred thousand SDP's in a couple of years with its bigger population base and multitude of SL core systems and therefore was zero need to attack Manticore/Grayson to begin with as the SL to attack them was already in the pipeline and the SL can likewise snap its fingers and produce massive quantities of new(SPOILER>>>>>>>....... ). Unless you want to argue that OB was a complete FUBAR(could do so)

kzt wrote:I don’t think there is any reason a fort can’t mount a hyperdrive. Might be wrong.

Except for the reason that at that point it begins to move away from the definition of a fort. A mobile fort is one thing, but entering into hyper nullifies the "fortified" position. A fort should never be caught out of place. Or able to be suckered out of place.

Relax wrote:

tlb wrote:PS. Whatever the truth of your ideas about a woman's fitness for a job, that discussion has NOTHING to do with the Honorverse if it derives from our Earth experience. So unless you can find text evidence from within the books for your views, I suggest that you drop the subject.

Stop changing the subject. It is not about fitness, though partially.

Willingness, Preference, Aptitude, and Interest are the subject matter and how this affects Grayson's available manpower. Men/Womens Preferences, aptitude, and interest vary by a wide margin due to biology. Without the preference, aptitude, and interest, it doesn't matter how willing/disciplined you are, you are NOT going to go into a subject field and spend a decade learning the trade

True today, true in 2000 years as well. Basic science and biology. IS there something wrong with being a woman or a man? Why do you want to ignore science making women men and men women?

Men actually are unfit for several jobs. Infant care under 1yr old as men do not have lactating breasts. Vast Majority of Men are unfit for any job requiring fine motor control under a microscope. All wirebonding on circuit boards, accelerometers, RADAR's is done by women for instance. Why are men unfit? Little ol' thing called Testosterone makes for twitchy muscles instead of steady. Damn, Biology strikes again. Shit. Guess that will be true in 2000 years as well. Yea, there will always be exceptions. But, that is exactly what they are; exceptions.

PS:
Average wage ~$50k
Average years worked 40
Average worth of your life: $2Million
Grayson 70% are in farming...
USA 1% half only work 40 days a year
USA wastes/sells half its ag production
USA actual # farmers is 0.25% of population

Grayson 750,000,000 men 70% --> -1% = 500,000,000 peoples lives freed up. = $25 TRILLION annually. or $1000Trillion over 40 years.

You don't suppose every Grayson financier is drooling over that prospect and makes it their #1 target to persue do ya? Just maybe?

ldwechsler wrote:
A large number of the jobs mentioned will be handled by robots and checked by Artificial Intelligence.

And please stay away from number predictions in terms of money, etc. We know far too little about what is going on to really project.

[quote="ldwechsler"]
Let us also condemn gender stereotypes. Talking about twitchy testosterone is not much different from talking about how women can't do top jobs because of their menstrual cycle.

There are many top techs who are men. That will not change.

Relax wrote:TLB: Just what exactly do you think HOUSES Mycroft??? A freighter? Mycroft is offensive only. Need CM's as well as sidewalls, armor along with C&C. = FORTS. Or said platforms get kablooied by mistletoe or certain spoilers...

runsforcelery wrote:As I believe I said before, Mycroft is effectively the cherry on top of a system defense capability — the MDM and Apollo — which would already be decisive against almost any attack. In a very real sense, Apollo has returned attacks launched from inside the hyper-limit of a heavily defended star system to the days when Horatio Nelson said "A ship's a fool to fight a fort."

Now, no one says the missile paradigm is going to stay where it is, of course!

tlb wrote:PS. Have you read up on Mycroft yet?

Relax wrote:TLB: IF you don't even know what mycroft is yourself, as it has to have physical control nodes which must be armored with active defenses to not be easily picked off, and RFC wrote about this in AAC, time to put you on ignore.

I only asked because you called it an offensive weapon; whereas RFC called it a top of the line system defence. Also At All Costs does not mention Mycroft, it describes Moriarty (as in chapter 37):

In Arthur orbit, the installation codenamed Moriarty came fully on-line for the first time. It wasn't a very huge installation. In fact, it was no larger than a heavy cruiser, and it had been transported in two prefabricated modules aboard a fleet supply ship, then assembled in place in less than forty-eight hours.
As warship tonnages went, four hundred thousand wasn't a lot . . . unless all of it was dedicated to fire control.
Moriarty was Shannon Foraker's system defense answer to the individual inferiority of the Republic's missile pods. The control station was a flat, light-drinking black, constructed of radar absorbent materials. It was almost impossible to detect, as long as it practiced strict emission-control discipline, and the Manticoran recon arrays had missed it entirely.
Now it reached out through the other innocent-looking orbital platforms which had been seeded about the system at the same time. Each of those platforms was, in effect, a less capable, simpler minded version of the RMN's own Keyholes. They formed a network, an expanding spray of tentacles, which gave Moriarty literally thousands of fire control telemetry links. And what those links lacked in Manticoran-style sophistication they made up in numbers, because they could control the missiles assigned to them without break all the way to their targets.
Moriarty had only one real weakness, aside from the fact that if it had been detected, killing it would have been relatively simple. That weakness was the light-speed limitation on its telemetry. It simply couldn't provide real-time corrections as its missiles raced down range. On the other hand, neither could Honor's telemetry links. Aside from the superior seeking systems and more capable AIs aboard the Manticoran missiles, the accuracy playing field had just been leveled.

Hilariously, Relax says he is setting me to ignore, so he will not know how wrong he is unless someone replies to the note. I guess that would make this post visible to him?

ldwechsler wrote:

ldwechsler wrote: Let us also condemn gender stereotypes. Talking about twitchy testosterone is not much different from talking about how women can't do top jobs because of their menstrual cycle.

There are many top techs who are men. That will not change.

Let us also condemn fools who ignore every scientific study in gender differences.

Bravo, there are exceptions. Golf clap for ldwechsler. Exceptions does not an argument make.

Another piece about what is next for Grayson.....Allison Harrington. Remember the conversation she had with the head of the Grayson Church? The one where she laid out what she had discovered about why the massively high rate of stillbirths and miscarrages of male children, and that she had a way to deal with that?
Presuming that Grayson is going to go along with the Beowulf Code and NOT ALLOW parents to select for one sex over the other, there are going to be a couple of things happening as soon as all of this works it's way though the Church and the solution (aka gene cleaning) make it out to the public in addressing both the unintended consequences of the fixed modification AND the rising birth rate.
Yeah, rising. Some of that because there will be a lot of families who are likely to try for sons- and along with those sons will also (remember there will be both the medical ethics and Church position on unborn children) be more daughters being born- and people will keep trying for sons. Like opening the floodgates because they can expect more pregnancies to be successful & result in sons. I't just that to have that result there will also be a number of more daughters to go along with it.

That, in the very long run, will have some impact on Grayson's social structure at least as far as the current polygamy as a necessity due to massive imbalance of sexes. Not to say that will eliminate polygamy, but eventually (20-30+ years down the road) start leading to more marriage situations that will not run to a three or more wifes in a family if for no other reason than there will be a climbing ration of men to women in the society. Slowly but it will be starting. The traditional multi-wife houshold will not vanish, it is too solidly built into the culture and does provide for a very practical child rearing enviornment.

As for the rebuilding of the orbital industries, Grayson is likely to apply its typical determination to accomplish that. Perhaps not on the scale of Manticore but they have draged themselves (or been dragged, it has been both ways) out of being a backwater and found that they can compete in the interstellar playing field. Very few of them are going to want to shrink back to the old isolation and lack of ability to make things for themselves or export for profit, let alone go back to having to buy everything the need to build themselves up from somebody elce.