Where Next for the GSN?

tlb wrote:PS. Whatever the truth of your ideas about a woman's fitness for a job, that discussion has NOTHING to do with the Honorverse if it derives from our Earth experience. So unless you can find text evidence from within the books for your views, I suggest that you drop the subject.

Stop changing the subject. It is not about fitness, though partially.

Willingness, Preference, Aptitude, and Interest are the subject matter and how this affects Grayson's available manpower. Men/Womens Preferences, aptitude, and interest vary by a wide margin due to biology. Without the preference, aptitude, and interest, it doesn't matter how willing/disciplined you are, you are NOT going to go into a subject field and spend a decade learning the trade

True today, true in 2000 years as well. Basic science and biology. IS there something wrong with being a woman or a man? Why do you want to ignore science making women men and men women?

Men actually are unfit for several jobs. Infant care under 1yr old as men do not have lactating breasts. Vast Majority of Men are unfit for any job requiring fine motor control under a microscope. All wirebonding on circuit boards, accelerometers, RADAR's is done by women for instance. Why are men unfit? Little ol' thing called Testosterone makes for twitchy muscles instead of steady. Damn, Biology strikes again. Shit. Guess that will be true in 2000 years as well. Yea, there will always be exceptions. But, that is exactly what they are; exceptions.

PS:
Average wage ~$50k
Average years worked 40
Average worth of your life: $2Million
Grayson 70% are in farming...
USA 1% half only work 40 days a year
USA wastes/sells half its ag production
USA actual # farmers is 0.25% of population

Grayson 750,000,000 men 70% --> -1% = 500,000,000 peoples lives freed up. = $25 TRILLION annually. or $1000Trillion over 40 years.

You don't suppose every Grayson financier is drooling over that prospect and makes it their #1 target to persue do ya? Just maybe?

Relax wrote:

tlb wrote:PS. Whatever the truth of your ideas about a woman's fitness for a job, that discussion has NOTHING to do with the Honorverse if it derives from our Earth experience. So unless you can find text evidence from within the books for your views, I suggest that you drop the subject.

Stop changing the subject. It is not about fitness, though partially.

Willingness, Preference, Aptitude, and Interest are the subject matter and how this affects Grayson's available manpower. Men/Womens Preferences, aptitude, and interest vary by a wide margin due to biology. Without the preference, aptitude, and interest, it doesn't matter how willing/disciplined you are, you are NOT going to go into a subject field and spend a decade learning the trade

True today, true in 2000 years as well. Basic science and biology. IS there something wrong with being a woman or a man? Why do you want to ignore science making women men and men women?

Men actually are unfit for several jobs. Infant care under 1yr old as men do not have lactating breasts. Vast Majority of Men are unfit for any job requiring fine motor control under a microscope. All wirebonding on circuit boards, accelerometers, RADAR's is done by women for instance. Why are men unfit? Little ol' thing called Testosterone makes for twitchy muscles instead of steady. Damn, Biology strikes again. Shit. Guess that will be true in 2000 years as well. Yea, there will always be exceptions. But, that is exactly what they are; exceptions.

PS:
Average wage ~$50k
Average years worked 40
Average worth of your life: $2Million
Grayson 70% are in farming...
USA 1% half only work 40 days a year
USA wastes/sells half its ag production
USA actual # farmers is 0.25% of population

Grayson 750,000,000 men 70% --> -1% = 500,000,000 peoples lives freed up. = $25 TRILLION annually. or $1000Trillion over 40 years.

You don't suppose every Grayson financier is drooling over that prospect and makes it their #1 target to persue do ya? Just maybe?

A large number of the jobs mentioned will be handled by robots and checked by Artificial Intelligence.

And please stay away from number predictions in terms of money, etc. We know far too little about what is going on to really project.

noblehunter wrote:*spoilers for UH*

While forts can defend to the hyper limit or however far the missiles can travel in the minimum cycle time for hyper generators, it seems to be a hard limit. If it takes the lovely 4 stage MDMs thirty seconds longer to reach their target than the targets need to skip into hyper, those missiles aren't good for much. They aren't even using up counter-missiles.

What is outside hyper? Essentially nothing. Mineral extraction and "gas stations" at the gas giants. If you are so worried about mining, or bunker hydrogen then tow the asteroids back home, fuel barges, where all of your industry is anyways. There is no industry in the asteroid belts beyond the hyper limit. Frankly it is insane to leave your industry with its ass in the wind like how DW has it.

Micro jumping? Pointless unless you never cross the hyper limit. If you never cross the hyper limit, then this means your own forces who have COLD impellers require 45minutes to start them(DOH) and another ~15 minutes to charge your hyperdrive before you can *micro jump*. SO you would rely on a reaction force who has hot impeller nodes at all times and has a charged hyperdrive at all times and who ALSO resides OUTSIDE the hyperlimit at ALL times.

So, where then are your other moveable forces? Outside or inside the hyper limit? If outside the hyperlimit they are naked as the day you were born to attacking parties. If inside the limit....They suck compared to forts which means at most 1/4 of your forces will be fighting.... well in this case, micro jumping around doing nothing while the OFFENSIVE force is flinging missiles and destroying your industry before your "COLD" impeller warships can even get their WEDGES UP!

Sorry, but when DW introduced FTL and 4 stage system defense missiles, which could just as easily be flung out of freighters without ever crossing the hyper limit, everything got turned on its head and I see no alternative but to resort to pre pod, planetary warfare to some degree which is dominated by: FORTS

Regarding the fort discussion upthread. A couple of points that haven't be made that argue against forts being a panacea for defensive purposes:

1) If the star system you are attempting to defend has a wormhole, particularly a wormhole junction, and especially if the government of that star system also has defense commitments at the other wormhole termini, you need mobile, hyper-capable units.

One possible? exception to this is if the wormhole terminus(i) is right on the hyper limit, similar to The Twins, and the star system has (a) habitable planet(s) inside the hyper limit (which the star system known as The Twins does not have) that the people of the system live on.

2) If the star system you are attempting to defend is a binary or multiple star system, with habitable planets that people live on around more than one of the stars, you need mobile, hyper-capable units. (For a binary or multiple star system to have one or more habitable planets, it probably needs to be a wide binary or extended multiple star system.)

ldwechsler wrote:

Relax wrote:PS:
Average wage ~$50k
Average years worked 40
Average worth of your life: $2Million
Grayson 70% are in farming...
USA 1% half only work 40 days a year
USA wastes/sells half its ag production
USA actual # farmers is 0.25% of population

Grayson 750,000,000 men 70% --> -1% = 500,000,000 peoples lives freed up. = $25 TRILLION annually. or $1000Trillion over 40 years.

You don't suppose every Grayson financier is drooling over that prospect and makes it their #1 target to persue do ya? Just maybe?

A large number of the jobs mentioned will be handled by robots and checked by Artificial Intelligence.

And please stay away from number predictions in terms of money, etc. We know far too little about what is going on to really project.

What is money? A representation of your LIFE
Numbers are symbols. Symbols of your LIFE
What is GSP? A representation of yearly system product
70% of Grayson's GSP is FARMING...... FARMING!
0.5% of USA GDP is FARMING

Free up 70% of Graysons population to do something other than farming.... yea, that is a massive massive goal.

Vince wrote:Regarding the fort discussion upthread. A couple of points that haven't be made that argue against forts being a panacea for defensive purposes:

1) If the star system you are attempting to defend has a wormhole

2) If the star system you are attempting to defend is a binary or multiple star system, with habitable planets that people live on around more than one of the stars, you need mobile, hyper-capable units. (For a binary or multiple star system to have one or more habitable planets, it probably needs to be a wide binary or extended multiple star system.)

As proven in Oyster bay, and when Filaretta attacked, in DW's own words, when it requires an hour for your ships to arrive at the other star in a binary system, even if you are ALREADY outside the hyper limit, the enemy has already fired his 4 stage FTL missiles, destroyed your facilities and disappeared into Hyper.

Sorry, but no, that is an argument AGAINST hyper defense ships.

EDIT: AAC ships time in HYPER from the wormhole to Hyperlimit
Echoes of Honor attack on Basilisk is another example.

Relax wrote:What is outside hyper? Essentially nothing. Mineral extraction and "gas stations" at the gas giants. If you are so worried about mining, or bunker hydrogen then tow the asteroids back home, fuel barges, where all of your industry is anyways. There is no industry in the asteroid belts beyond the hyper limit. Frankly it is insane to leave your industry with its ass in the wind like how DW has it.

Micro jumping? Pointless unless you never cross the hyper limit. If you never cross the hyper limit, then this means your own forces who have COLD impellers require 45minutes to start them(DOH) and another ~15 minutes to charge your hyperdrive before you can *micro jump*. SO you would rely on a reaction force who has hot impeller nodes at all times and has a charged hyperdrive at all times and who ALSO resides OUTSIDE the hyperlimit at ALL times.

So, where then are your other moveable forces? Outside or inside the hyper limit? If outside the hyperlimit they are naked as the day you were born to attacking parties. If inside the limit....They suck compared to forts which means at most 1/4 of your forces will be fighting.... well in this case, micro jumping around doing nothing while the OFFENSIVE force is flinging missiles and destroying your industry before your "COLD" impeller warships can even get their WEDGES UP!

Sorry, but when DW introduced FTL and 4 stage system defense missiles, which could just as easily be flung out of freighters without ever crossing the hyper limit, everything got turned on its head and I see no alternative but to resort to pre pod, planetary warfare to some degree which is dominated by: FORTS

You missed the point. Forts have a hard range cap based on hyper generator cycle times. Outside that range assuming it's larger than the hyper limit, they can't do anything. If the attackers can fire from outside that range, i.e. they have MDMs, the fort is just an expensive target. You may be right that hyper-capable defenders are useless but forts are just as ineffective.

I don't know if mobile forces would be more useful but at least they could something besides sit there and get shot at.

tlb wrote:PS. Whatever the truth of your ideas about a woman's fitness for a job, that discussion has NOTHING to do with the Honorverse if it derives from our Earth experience. So unless you can find text evidence from within the books for your views, I suggest that you drop the subject.

Relax wrote:Stop changing the subject. It is not about fitness, though partially.

Willingness, Preference, Aptitude, and Interest are the subject matter and how this affects Grayson's available manpower. Men/Womens Preferences, aptitude, and interest vary by a wide margin due to biology. Without the preference, aptitude, and interest, it doesn't matter how willing/disciplined you are, you are NOT going to go into a subject field and spend a decade learning the trade

True today, true in 2000 years as well. Basic science and biology. IS there something wrong with being a woman or a man? Why do you want to ignore science making women men and men women?

Men actually are unfit for several jobs. Infant care under 1yr old as men do not have lactating breasts. Vast Majority of Men are unfit for any job requiring fine motor control under a microscope. All wirebonding on circuit boards, accelerometers, RADAR's is done by women for instance. Why are men unfit? Little ol' thing called Testosterone makes for twitchy muscles instead of steady. Damn, Biology strikes again. Shit. Guess that will be true in 2000 years as well. Yea, there will always be exceptions. But, that is exactly what they are; exceptions.

PS:
Average wage ~$50k
Average years worked 40
Average worth of your life: $2Million
Grayson 70% are in farming...
USA 1% half only work 40 days a year
USA wastes/sells half its ag production
USA actual # farmers is 0.25% of population

Grayson 750,000,000 men 70% --> -1% = 500,000,000 peoples lives freed up. = $25 TRILLION annually. or $1000Trillion over 40 years.

You don't suppose every Grayson financier is drooling over that prospect and makes it their #1 target to persue do ya? Just maybe?

Where is your textual evidence for any of this? From anything that RFC has written about the Honorverse; book, chapter and verse if you have it.
Because you do not seem to understand that the books are not necessarily 2000 years from now in our future. They are an Amazing fantasy future, as you may have said. So I think it is you that keeps changing the subject.

PS. Have you read up on Mycroft yet?

noblehunter wrote:
You missed the point. Forts have a hard range cap based on hyper generator cycle times. Outside that range assuming it's larger than the hyper limit, they can't do anything. If the attackers can fire from outside that range, i.e. they have MDMs, the fort is just an expensive target. You may be right that hyper-capable defenders are useless but forts are just as ineffective.

I don't know if mobile forces would be more useful but at least they could something besides sit there and get shot at.

War is not a single point defense only or offense only picture. It is fear of reprisal that keeps people sane. One reason why absolute power corrupts absolutely; they get god complex.

It appears you just agreed with my point in previous post. And missed/agreed on reciprocal of a second point. Forts have active defenses in far cheaper greater numbers than hyper capable ships. Is this all you need? No. Without hyper capable ships, you cannot dish out what the attackers are giving with so much luv and appreciation right back in their home planets face.

And impeller ships without wedges are sitting ducks outside the hyper limit. Thus your defense becomes horrifically expensive.

Reality: War comes down to $$$

tlb wrote:PS. Have you read up on Mycroft yet?

TLB: IF you don't even know what mycroft is yourself, as it has to have physical control nodes which must be armored with active defenses to not be easily picked off, and RFC wrote about this in AAC, time to put you on ignore.