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Where Next for the GSN?

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Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Captain Golding   » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:04 am

Captain Golding
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With the end of the overt naval wars vs. Haven and the SL what next for the GSN? On the political front the Keys will be trying to re-assert their authority vs. the Sword and seeking to reduce Military Expenditure. Following the impacts of Oyster Bay there is a lot of Infrastructure to rebuild and I am sure revenge to be claimed. Unlike Manticore Grayson has not picked up an Empire to Administer, Secure and Exploit.

So the GSN will have to down size but how far, how quickly and what should the new force structure look like?
I would assume that all the older ship purchases, captures and mish-mash of equipment would get layed-up or scraped. Probably the Protector's Own would get down sized or disbanded - how many of the Cerberus survivors now have worlds to return to? Both within the new Prichard Haven and outside it where worlds have chosen independence.
The GSN is Capital Ship heavy - 160+ SD(P) and 80- SD's (Depending on the losses). But for BC's we have less than 100 modern units) and for CA's we have about 50 modern Sag variants. CL's we about 70 Davies and Disciples and for Destroyers about 20 Rolands (17+ HoS) and about 40 Joshua dating back to 1905. SO a large strike and Home defense fleet but too few screening and scouting units. HoS gives the numbers build / purchased but not the losses or disposals in most cases.
But what is the Mission? No Empire to protect and how significant is the Grayson Merchant Marine ? Where will they need to run convoy escorts or anti-piracy patrols. Masa... will still be tied up by the Manticore forces for quite some time to come. What is the current threat profile against Grayson it’s self ? - Is a forward deployment at the MWHJ still the right thing to do?
I suspect that as in the Highridge period Grayson will be very active on the Diplomatic front with the other Planets in the Manticore~Havenite border country. With the number of Havenite Exiles as well I suspect that Grayson will be in the fore front of reaching out to those Planets that choose to leave the Haven's central authority - and there will be some no matter how good Pritchard is at selling the whole Manticore-Havan GA. Will we see Grayson Diplomatic / Trade expeditions pushing out via the Junction into the Fringe or Silesia. Will there be Grayson Trade Missions into the Solarian Fringe? We have not seen much GSN engagement within 10th fleet beyond exchange personal but that does not mean that it was not there.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by phillies   » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:39 am

phillies
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The Graysons might consider that they now have a largish spaceship manufacturing industry, so finding new and more pleasant planets on which to live, planets not currently inhabited but capable of being made habitable, might be a good step in the right direction. The resources that build a hundred SDs build a far large number of freighters or passenger transports, so in the fullness of time Grayson itself might transport itself to someplace more pleasant, except for a modest number of stay-at-homes.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by George J. Smith   » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:29 pm

George J. Smith
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Spoiler







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Spoiler


Given that Michael Mayhew was killed in the Beowulf strike I don't think there is going to be a lot of downsizing in Grayson. A moratorium on building maybe until Bolthole comes up with something to detect Spider drives and then there will be a push to build new designs with that technology.
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by stewart   » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:57 pm

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[quote="Captain Golding"]With the end of the overt naval wars vs. Haven and the SL what next for the GSN? On the political front the Keys will be trying to re-assert their authority vs. the Sword and seeking to reduce Military Expenditure. Following the impacts of Oyster Bay there is a lot of Infrastructure to rebuild and I am sure revenge to be claimed. Unlike Manticore Grayson has not picked up an Empire to Administer, Secure and Exploit.

**************

Recommend going back to read "AAC & AOV" -- Honor's quote "Benjamin is Grayson" --
The GSN will not downsize unless Benjamin says to downsize.

With Prolong and "modern medicine" available, there is already a population boom on Grayson.
After Blackbird is re-built, I suspect (1) there will be new Steadings established on the other planets of the Yeltsin system; (2) Grayson might develop its own merchant marine and foreign aid arrangements (suggest a Legate to Saltash) with the new independent systems.
It is all part of "meeting the Test"

(and then there is always Masada, the long sundered brother)

-- Stewart
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Brigade XO   » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:45 am

Brigade XO
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The war with the Mandarins is over but not the war with the Aligment.

The question of what is going to happen with the new variation of the SL is still open. What the GA has set for conditions -the ones in the book, not the detail of the followup discussions between Kingsford and Harrington- and the inevitable changes on ambition and other problems of all of the systems that stay or leave the SL and every other system affected by the end of the current regime in of the SL is a long way from being understood let alone being resolved.

We already know that Mannheim (spelling) has begun forming an alliance of systems as planned under the Renaissance Faction. There has been a number of discussions here about probable decent into warlordism and similar problems from whatever happens to the SL primarily because the history of the SLN to suppress and discourage actual fighting between SL members or systems (or Transtellars) grabbing systems without first making deals with OFS to give it a large percentage of the take.

The GA may not want to increase the number of wallers but it is going to have to at least maintain the numbers at the same time it improves the capablities of the ships. It, and any of it's member Star Nations are probably going to need more of the below-the-wall ships to handle the changed roles. Those roles include making the SLN/SL live with the terms forced upon them, doing commerce protection/piracy suppression outside the new SL and enforcing all the things the SLN was previously was to do as far as suppression inter-system warfare and things like EE violations.

More of the BC and smaller ships and shoals of LACs.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by ldwechsler   » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:51 pm

ldwechsler
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Brigade XO wrote:The war with the Mandarins is over but not the war with the Aligment.

The question of what is going to happen with the new variation of the SL is still open. What the GA has set for conditions -the ones in the book, not the detail of the followup discussions between Kingsford and Harrington- and the inevitable changes on ambition and other problems of all of the systems that stay or leave the SL and every other system affected by the end of the current regime in of the SL is a long way from being understood let alone being resolved.

We already know that Mannheim (spelling) has begun forming an alliance of systems as planned under the Renaissance Faction. There has been a number of discussions here about probable decent into warlordism and similar problems from whatever happens to the SL primarily because the history of the SLN to suppress and discourage actual fighting between SL members or systems (or Transtellars) grabbing systems without first making deals with OFS to give it a large percentage of the take.

The GA may not want to increase the number of wallers but it is going to have to at least maintain the numbers at the same time it improves the capablities of the ships. It, and any of it's member Star Nations are probably going to need more of the below-the-wall ships to handle the changed roles. Those roles include making the SLN/SL live with the terms forced upon them, doing commerce protection/piracy suppression outside the new SL and enforcing all the things the SLN was previously was to do as far as suppression inter-system warfare and things like EE violations.

More of the BC and smaller ships and shoals of LACs.


A couple of points:

1. No one seems to know exactly what the Renaissance Factor is. They claim they are a breakaway Verge sector. The name may prove disturbing to some (actually a strategic mistake...they should have taken something far more innocuous like the Freedom Factor) but if they don't DO much that seems obviously disturbing, they would not be an obvious target, at least for a while.

2. They might be pushing past the Beowulf Code but there are a lot of pushes in a lot of ways all over the galaxy. As long as they don't do anything obvious, they could probably get away with it. Nations can get away with it. Most of nations on Earth who signed the Paris Climate Accord saw an INCREASE in emissions, not a decrease.

3. Grayson is a sort of inflexible place. They are always concerned about Masada. I think they will work to keep up a fleet which does provide a great training factor for the whole planet. They are less likely to downsize than Manticore. We might recall that when the bad guys slashed the Mantie navy, Grayson kept building. They had the Harrington Class before Manticore had the Invictus Class.
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by George J. Smith   » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:09 pm

George J. Smith
Commodore

Posts: 873
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ldwechsler wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:The war with the Mandarins is over but not the war with the Aligment.

The question of what is going to happen with the new variation of the SL is still open. What the GA has set for conditions -the ones in the book, not the detail of the followup discussions between Kingsford and Harrington- and the inevitable changes on ambition and other problems of all of the systems that stay or leave the SL and every other system affected by the end of the current regime in of the SL is a long way from being understood let alone being resolved.

We already know that Mannheim (spelling) has begun forming an alliance of systems as planned under the Renaissance Faction. There has been a number of discussions here about probable decent into warlordism and similar problems from whatever happens to the SL primarily because the history of the SLN to suppress and discourage actual fighting between SL members or systems (or Transtellars) grabbing systems without first making deals with OFS to give it a large percentage of the take.

The GA may not want to increase the number of wallers but it is going to have to at least maintain the numbers at the same time it improves the capablities of the ships. It, and any of it's member Star Nations are probably going to need more of the below-the-wall ships to handle the changed roles. Those roles include making the SLN/SL live with the terms forced upon them, doing commerce protection/piracy suppression outside the new SL and enforcing all the things the SLN was previously was to do as far as suppression inter-system warfare and things like EE violations.

More of the BC and smaller ships and shoals of LACs.


A couple of points:

1. No one seems to know exactly what the Renaissance Factor is. They claim they are a breakaway Verge sector. The name may prove disturbing to some (actually a strategic mistake...they should have taken something far more innocuous like the Freedom Factor) but if they don't DO much that seems obviously disturbing, they would not be an obvious target, at least for a while.

2. They might be pushing past the Beowulf Code but there are a lot of pushes in a lot of ways all over the galaxy. As long as they don't do anything obvious, they could probably get away with it. Nations can get away with it. Most of nations on Earth who signed the Paris Climate Accord saw an INCREASE in emissions, not a decrease.

3. Grayson is a sort of inflexible place. They are always concerned about Masada. I think they will work to keep up a fleet which does provide a great training factor for the whole planet. They are less likely to downsize than Manticore. We might recall that when the bad guys slashed the Mantie navy, Grayson kept building. They had the Harrington Class before Manticore had the Invictus Class.



ISTR the name was chosen deliberately by the LTPB to confuse everyone else regarding a group that had a similar name.
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Fireflair   » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:43 am

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For my two cent's worth you'll see a few things...

Grayson was already at a spending cap of sorts. They had expanded explosively while improving quality of life because they'd come from so much lower a standard of living than Manticore. And they'd restricted the improvements in civilian living quality while they fought the war. However they were already straining badly the man power and budget.

I agree that there will be loads of LACs and a definite smoothing out of technologies within the fleet. Get all the ships on the same page, as it were. Or close enough to it that there won't be any questions about the Protector's Own being hodge podge. Benjamin is not going to forget about the MAlign any more than Elizabeth is though, so I doubt he'll allow the downsizing of Grayson's Navy that many steadholders will push for.

I could see Benjamin using the turmoil in the verge and shell as a place to send the Protector's Own or the GSN for training as well as flag showing to build good public relations. I also suspect that the GSN will continue to work with the RMN to patrol all of GA territory. In support of this I could see Benjamin mothballing a significant number of SD(P)'s and focusing on BC's and such to support the GA's patrol patterns.

I'd say the mission is as follows:
1. Protect Grayson (Duh)
2. Support the GA (Again, Duh)
3. Work with Elizabeth and the RMN to ferret out the MAlign.
4. Build public support and good will through anti-piracy, flag showing missions and humanitarian out reach within the protectorates, shell and verge. (keep in mind that those places are not exactly close to home though)
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:30 am

TFLYTSNBN

I doubt that the GSN will continue building new ships. There shipyards have been blown into dust bunnies anyway.

The GSN will NOT be mothballing SD(P)s. The ships have already been paid for along with their ammo load out and any reloads. They employ intensive automation which greatly reduces operational cost.

Some CLACs and their LACs will remain operational while others go into reserve. Reason is that LACs are attrition units ill suited to normal anti piracy operations.

The GSN WILL mothball or decommission their menagerie of captured, cast off or escaped from Hell warships. These units are a logistical as well maintainance nightmare not to mention not up to modern standards.

The GSN WILL mothball their new build, prepod SDs including Benjamin the Great.

The GSN will do some serious triage on their newer build below the wall units. Their Mark 16 armed, Rolland DDs, Saganami Cs and Nikes will be retained. After the slaughter at Hypatia, earlier designs that use single drive missiles will be the first to be mothballed.

I expect that the GSN WILL retain their considerable fleet of BC(P)s. Say all you want about relative survivability but a ship armed with MDMs or even Mk-16 DDMs have such an enormuse range and lethality advantage over ships armed with single drive missiles that loosing them would be insane.

Now which ship will be commanded by Commander Abigail Hearnes?
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Re: Where Next for the GSN?
Post by Brigade XO   » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:23 pm

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My thoughs are :
Grayson will rebuild both it's civilian and military yards along with expanding it's other industries in space.

While they may recycle things like the Eylesian Space Navy ships, it will only as fast as they can first build replacements with the newer GA technology. The Protector's Own will continue to be a major component.

Grayson will continue to struggle with the changes to it's society but it will also reach out to engage more with the commerce of the rest of various economies it is now in contact with. Trade and the capability to control some sigificant portion of the trade you do with other economies keeps your own system strong.

Masada is going to continue to be a problem. We are talking a long term problem to which I don't have a good suggestion. It does't get better until a majority of the population of Masada moves away from that fanatical and tyranical position on the shared (sort of) religious faith. Masada is so very much a giant basket of venomous snakes driven by religious certainty that it's almost hopeless barring The Tester giving a great part of the population a solid slap on the head and saying "your being idiots, change or just kill yourselves and let others move on to something better than living with acid sloshing around in your skulls".

A whole lot of Grayson is just as motivated as Manticore to find and "deal with" the Alignment. I don't see them letting go of that particular Test any time soon. If nothing else, Benjamin will tap that to improve/expand the GSN and add to the combined forces actively hunting the Alignment. Grayson is out if it's centuries old shell and dealing with the galexy at large but will be doing it on it's own terms as a partner, not a pawn.
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