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[SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .

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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:07 pm

JohnRoth
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Joat42 wrote:
cthia wrote:I really think the RMN should begin taking special note of every ship using the junction, right down to the signature of its engines. ONI should start an ambitious search for any clues of a hidden entity - accidentally divulging too much information via seemingly innocuous inconsistences in travel, engine signature, etc. I wonder if the MA shied away from using the junctions during Lacoon. Wanting to avoid the sparse traffic where more time could be spent eyeballing them.

Cross reference everything now that everyone's happy that the Interstate Hwy is reopen.

I'm thinking in all probability that they already keep the signatures since it's prudent. However, considering the amount of traffic and the analysis needed to find the 'odd' freighter or ship isn't easy.


I've seen this argument a number of times over the last 5 decades or more I've been reading SF (plus a collection that went back a couple more decades). It always assumes that if you've got x number of items, you need to do x**2 (x * x) full comparisons.

Absolutely not. The first thing anyone with that kind of massive search problem does is to try to sort the data into similarity classes so the number of items that needs to be compared is reasonable. How this is done varies wildly by the data domain, of course.

In this case, there was a suggestion to pull frequent visitors out of the data set, or at least collapse their signatures into a single entry rather than let them occupy multiple slots. Seems reasonable to me.
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by cthia   » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:10 pm

cthia
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Joat42 wrote:
cthia wrote:I really think the RMN should begin taking special note of every ship using the junction, right down to the signature of its engines. ONI should start an ambitious search for any clues of a hidden entity - accidentally divulging too much information via seemingly innocuous inconsistences in travel, engine signature, etc. I wonder if the MA shied away from using the junctions during Lacoon. Wanting to avoid the sparse traffic where more time could be spent eyeballing them.

Cross reference everything now that everyone's happy that the Interstate Hwy is reopen.

I'm thinking in all probability that they already keep the signatures since it's prudent. However, considering the amount of traffic and the analysis needed to find the 'odd' freighter or ship isn't easy.


JohnRoth wrote:I've seen this argument a number of times over the last 5 decades or more I've been reading SF (plus a collection that went back a couple more decades). It always assumes that if you've got x number of items, you need to do x**2 (x * x) full comparisons.

Absolutely not. The first thing anyone with that kind of massive search problem does is to try to sort the data into similarity classes so the number of items that needs to be compared is reasonable. How this is done varies wildly by the data domain, of course.

In this case, there was a suggestion to pull frequent visitors out of the data set, or at least collapse their signatures into a single entry rather than let them occupy multiple slots. Seems reasonable to me.


We have faith in MONI methods of sieving data and crunching numbers on massive computers that bested even the Salamander and cut her worm. If so many people can conceive of it, there just might be some light lurking at the end of the tunnel. Or enlightenment. I'm sure lots of data is already available waiting to be massaged into tidbits of hints. A massive undertaking. Yes. Motivation? A matter of life and death. I wouldn't be surprised if something of the sort hasn't long been initiated. Especially if the GA can get their hands on a lot of unused Solly data. And fill in their holes.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by cthia   » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:31 pm

cthia
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I've read a few spoilers that the MA has made some real mistakes in UC and revealed too much about their existence? The good thing about that is now the whole galaxy knows. The bad thing about it is, since there's no longer a need to keep a secret, there's no longer a need not to destroy something.

Am I the only one who can see that somewhere in their future Beowulf has a formal date with the Dets?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by Joat42   » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:27 pm

Joat42
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Joat42 wrote:
cthia wrote:I really think the RMN should begin taking special note of every ship using the junction, right down to the signature of its engines. ONI should start an ambitious search for any clues of a hidden entity - accidentally divulging too much information via seemingly innocuous inconsistences in travel, engine signature, etc. I wonder if the MA shied away from using the junctions during Lacoon. Wanting to avoid the sparse traffic where more time could be spent eyeballing them.

Cross reference everything now that everyone's happy that the Interstate Hwy is reopen.

I'm thinking in all probability that they already keep the signatures since it's prudent. However, considering the amount of traffic and the analysis needed to find the 'odd' freighter or ship isn't easy.
JohnRoth wrote:I've seen this argument a number of times over the last 5 decades or more I've been reading SF (plus a collection that went back a couple more decades). It always assumes that if you've got x number of items, you need to do x**2 (x * x) full comparisons.

Absolutely not. The first thing anyone with that kind of massive search problem does is to try to sort the data into similarity classes so the number of items that needs to be compared is reasonable. How this is done varies wildly by the data domain, of course.

In this case, there was a suggestion to pull frequent visitors out of the data set, or at least collapse their signatures into a single entry rather than let them occupy multiple slots. Seems reasonable to me.

It's not that simple, if you only use data from the junction it doesn't tell you very much. You need data from several locations to start doing pattern analysis.

Consider a 4-way intersection, using a plate-reader can you determine where a specific car has been and where it's going?

You can probably infer some information depending on the intervals between transits, but not with any high confidence.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by ldwechsler   » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:19 pm

ldwechsler
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Posts: 1153
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Joat42 wrote:
cthia wrote:I really think the RMN should begin taking special note of every ship using the junction, right down to the signature of its engines. ONI should start an ambitious search for any clues of a hidden entity - accidentally divulging too much information via seemingly innocuous inconsistences in travel, engine signature, etc. I wonder if the MA shied away from using the junctions during Lacoon. Wanting to avoid the sparse traffic where more time could be spent eyeballing them.

Cross reference everything now that everyone's happy that the Interstate Hwy is reopen.

I'm thinking in all probability that they already keep the signatures since it's prudent. However, considering the amount of traffic and the analysis needed to find the 'odd' freighter or ship isn't easy.
JohnRoth wrote:I've seen this argument a number of times over the last 5 decades or more I've been reading SF (plus a collection that went back a couple more decades). It always assumes that if you've got x number of items, you need to do x**2 (x * x) full comparisons.

Absolutely not. The first thing anyone with that kind of massive search problem does is to try to sort the data into similarity classes so the number of items that needs to be compared is reasonable. How this is done varies wildly by the data domain, of course.

In this case, there was a suggestion to pull frequent visitors out of the data set, or at least collapse their signatures into a single entry rather than let them occupy multiple slots. Seems reasonable to me.

It's not that simple, if you only use data from the junction it doesn't tell you very much. You need data from several locations to start doing pattern analysis.

Consider a 4-way intersection, using a plate-reader can you determine where a specific car has been and where it's going?

You can probably infer some information depending on the intervals between transits, but not with any high confidence.[/quote]

There are a lot of things that can be done around the junctions.
Having some buoys to register info on ships once they're past the junctions would be useful.

Once a good database has been established (and keep in mind that it is not all that difficult...think of how many millions of people are tracked NOW and we are dealing thousands of years in the future) analytic programs can essentially check if they are actually going to the places they say they will. Not all the time, of course, but there will be a lot of elimination of the reasonably good guys.

Other programs can check for certain items and follow up a bit. If Darius is getting a real lot of extra material, that might be spotted.
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by cthia   » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:06 am

cthia
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Posts: 10694
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Joat42 wrote:
cthia wrote:I really think the RMN should begin taking special note of every ship using the junction, right down to the signature of its engines. ONI should start an ambitious search for any clues of a hidden entity - accidentally divulging too much information via seemingly innocuous inconsistences in travel, engine signature, etc. I wonder if the MA shied away from using the junctions during Lacoon. Wanting to avoid the sparse traffic where more time could be spent eyeballing them.

Cross reference everything now that everyone's happy that the Interstate Hwy is reopen.

I'm thinking in all probability that they already keep the signatures since it's prudent. However, considering the amount of traffic and the analysis needed to find the 'odd' freighter or ship isn't easy.
JohnRoth wrote:I've seen this argument a number of times over the last 5 decades or more I've been reading SF (plus a collection that went back a couple more decades). It always assumes that if you've got x number of items, you need to do x**2 (x * x) full comparisons.

Absolutely not. The first thing anyone with that kind of massive search problem does is to try to sort the data into similarity classes so the number of items that needs to be compared is reasonable. How this is done varies wildly by the data domain, of course.

In this case, there was a suggestion to pull frequent visitors out of the data set, or at least collapse their signatures into a single entry rather than let them occupy multiple slots. Seems reasonable to me.
Joat42 wrote:It's not that simple, if you only use data from the junction it doesn't tell you very much. You need data from several locations to start doing pattern analysis.

Consider a 4-way intersection, using a plate-reader can you determine where a specific car has been and where it's going?

You can probably infer some information depending on the intervals between transits, but not with any high confidence.
ldwechsler wrote:There are a lot of things that can be done around the junctions.
Having some buoys to register info on ships once they're past the junctions would be useful.

Once a good database has been established (and keep in mind that it is not all that difficult...think of how many millions of people are tracked NOW and we are dealing thousands of years in the future) analytic programs can essentially check if they are actually going to the places they say they will. Not all the time, of course, but there will be a lot of elimination of the reasonably good guys.

Other programs can check for certain items and follow up a bit. If Darius is getting a real lot of extra material, that might be spotted.


Data from every command scattered about the galaxy should also be collected. Give the many Youngs and Santinos who're simply out and about twiddling their thumbs while circling the planet something constructive to do.


****** *


Was/will Honor be awarded a medal for ending the war?

Can't just give her the Medal of Honor, that's already hers. LOL

It's a richly just humanitarian effort Honor has achieved by ending the war. Just ask the average inhabitant of the League. . .


"Free at last, free at last, thank Harrington Almighty we are free at last!"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by Peregrinator   » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:30 pm

Peregrinator
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:50 pm

cthia wrote:Can't just give her the Medal of Honor, that's already hers. LOL

Now you've done it. There needs to be a "mainline" Honorverse novel titled Mettle of Honor.
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by ywing14   » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:00 pm

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Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:40 pm

Peregrinator wrote:
cthia wrote:Can't just give her the Medal of Honor, that's already hers. LOL

Now you've done it. There needs to be a "mainline" Honorverse novel titled Mettle of Honor.


haha too true
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by emphy   » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:57 am

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Midshipman

Posts: 9
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cthia wrote:
Data from every command scattered about the galaxy should also be collected. Give the many Youngs and Santinos who're simply out and about twiddling their thumbs while circling the planet something constructive to do.


Trusting those types of people to do this with the required reliability may not be the brightest idea. They would, most likely, just falsify some data and keep on twiddling.
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Re: [SPOILERS] Now that the war is over . . .
Post by Brigade XO   » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:28 pm

Brigade XO
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Location: KY

The formal war with the SLN is ended- sort of. Now we get to see the Post-War and what happens after, particularly what the SL Assembly does with the new Constitution and what kind of backlash comes from the litteraly millions of people are going to be unhappy (vastly, passionately, deeply) with the outcome, kind of like the American South at the end of the American Civil War.
Then there are all those trans-stellar companies who's rice bowls have just been shattered. Lots of bad feeling there.
So we also have the Alignment who is still hiding in the shadows though their existence has been confirmed (to those who want to keep their heads in the sand or other reasons) which is a war not even begun to fight on the side of the GA. Oh, they want to fight it but firsst they have to find the enemy and some solid targets to hit.
Messy, very messy.
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