Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Disadvantages of Allies

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:17 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 9846
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

The old adage rings true...

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

But when your enemy is no longer your enemy, are you no longer my friend?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by winsettz   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:45 am

winsettz
Midshipman

Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:44 pm

Not necessarily, more that the reason for the friendship has changed. Haven and Manticore are friends (or at least, not fighting anymore), that doesn't necessarily mean Manticore/Grayson special relationship isn't going anywhere. Haven is unlikely to get between the two.

cthia wrote:The old adage rings true...

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

But when your enemy is no longer your enemy, are you no longer my friend?
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by Dauntless   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:46 am

Dauntless
Commodore

Posts: 804
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:54 pm
Location: United Kingdom

not going to comment on beowulf damage due that being a spoiler and a big one at that.

as to a fight between SEM and Andermani ad heaven helping SEM out: I think it will depend. if it was sparked by a high ridge like idiot, then help is unlikely. where as if it gustav just being petty over the manty half of silesa then yes they probably would help. the the help probably consisting of acting as neutral party that has the strength to kick either them if they don't stop behaving like children and talk it out.

then again UH talks about ways andermani can expand without fighting SEM.
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by Vince   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:13 pm

Vince
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:43 pm

Advantage: Being Bailed Out By Allies
I distinctly remember learning in history class that the French assisted some colonists against their fight with the British, and the colonists wouldn't have won their fight for independence without their help.

Normal Foreign Affairs: Disagreement on Action
Nations, just like people, have differing points of view on what should be done and how it should be accomplished.
-------------------------------------------------------------
History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:47 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 9846
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Vince wrote:Advantage: Being Bailed Out By Allies
I distinctly remember learning in history class that the French assisted some colonists against their fight with the British, and the colonists wouldn't have won their fight for independence without their help.

Normal Foreign Affairs: Disagreement on Action
Nations, just like people, have differing points of view on what should be done and how it should be accomplished.


Re: Disagreement on Action

Like being dragged into skirmishes you don't wish to be part of. Especially when one ally is more vulnerable to an attack than the other.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:56 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 9846
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Dauntless wrote:not going to comment on beowulf damage due that being a spoiler and a big one at that.

as to a fight between SEM and Andermani ad heaven helping SEM out: I think it will depend. if it was sparked by a high ridge like idiot, then help is unlikely. where as if it gustav just being petty over the manty half of silesa then yes they probably would help. the the help probably consisting of acting as neutral party that has the strength to kick either them if they don't stop behaving like children and talk it out.

then again UH talks about ways andermani can expand without fighting SEM.


Haven has the strength to kick either of them now?

Well, that certainly highlights one disadvantage. Sharing tech with an ally can make them stronger than you. OOPS!

You're not supposed to give them all of your toys or the latest generations. I suppose it doesn't work quite the same in the Honorverse when tech levels are already so close to each other.

But then, weren't the Peeps still a fair ways away from developing something even close to Apollo and its systems?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by Dauntless   » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:07 am

Dauntless
Commodore

Posts: 804
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:54 pm
Location: United Kingdom

they can't match apollo but they do have more SD(P)s

also bear in mind in the scenario I gave haven would be a neutral party who would let QE3 and andermani save face by saying. "well we could continued to fight but a two front war against manty/andermani and heaven would be disaster".
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by Brigade XO   » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:37 pm

Brigade XO
Admiral

Posts: 2141
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:31 pm
Location: KY


Re: Disagreement on Action

Like being dragged into skirmishes you don't wish to be part of. Especially when one ally is more vulnerable to an attack than the other.


Like the US not comming in to bail either the English or the French out of their venture into the Suez Canal. Or perhaps the more pointed part not carried in the newspapers about doing something pro-actvie to both of them if they didn't resolve the situation by getting the hell out.
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by cthia   » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:27 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 9846
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Brigade XO wrote:

Re: Disagreement on Action

Like being dragged into skirmishes you don't wish to be part of. Especially when one ally is more vulnerable to an attack than the other.


Like the US not comming in to bail either the English or the French out of their venture into the Suez Canal. Or perhaps the more pointed part not carried in the newspapers about doing something pro-actvie to both of them if they didn't resolve the situation by getting the hell out.


Which can lead to many casualties when one ally is "hung out to dry."


Lane change:

Up to and including the "defeat" of the League, I can understand the Manties being in the driver's seat of the GA. But that milestone is past. Why can't either of the other thirds of the GA not dictate the policy of the GA? IOW, who says that Manticore has to be in the driver's seat?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Disadvantages of Allies
Post by cthia   » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:58 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 9846
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

What about vis-à-vis the Peep/Manty alliance, in response to the danger that was once the obese gorilla who had consumed a lot of hapless twinkies?

winsettz wrote:Not necessarily, more that the reason for the friendship has changed. Haven and Manticore are friends (or at least, not fighting anymore), that doesn't necessarily mean Manticore/Grayson special relationship isn't going anywhere. Haven is unlikely to get between the two.

cthia wrote:The old adage rings true...

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

But when your enemy is no longer your enemy, are you no longer my friend?


.
Last edited by cthia on Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top

Return to Honorverse