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Mind voice dialects.

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Mind voice dialects.
Post by ThisName1   » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:28 pm

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If treecats form colonies on a bunch of planets would their mind voices develop dialects? Maybe to the point of making it hard for some dialects to understand others?
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:50 am

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ThisName1 wrote:If treecats form colonies on a bunch of planets would their mind voices develop dialects? Maybe to the point of making it hard for some dialects to understand others?


Doubtful.
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by pappilon   » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:02 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
ThisName1 wrote:If treecats form colonies on a bunch of planets would their mind voices develop dialects? Maybe to the point of making it hard for some dialects to understand others?


Doubtful.




Yeah, pretty doubtful that a telempathic race would develop dialects. Where dialects would develop is in signing. Different native species, different cuisines, whatnot.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by cthia   » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:48 am

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It's certainly an interesting question requiring profound thinking to conceive of it, and to settle on an answer. I don't think we know enough detail about the mechanics of treecat language to make an informed decision. Basing it on the languages of Earth, we'd think that isolation would automatically open up the possibility. But we'd have to consider that the control rod preventing that from happening is the Memory Singers - who are constantly speaking in one form of "dialect" - if you will, for so long. I think for the Demon Murphy to pull that off would require a disease or something cataclysmic to simultaneously wipe out the Memory Singers completely and some improbable event cutting the Grayson cats off from off world cats. At any rate, in considering all of that, Weird Harold's "doubtful" is the correct word.

Being on Grayson though, may very well infuse the treecat language with worldly ideals, ideologies and even religion. If Manticore hasn't already exposed them to the idea of a God. Treecats could be converted to The Church of Humanity Unchained. Do treecats presently believe in a higher power? They are as intelligent as humans. (Sorry treecats, ahem.) Could they become pacifists after being exposed to, and assimilating, the teachings of Grayson religion?

But I digress. Dialect is considered to be a regional phenomena. What causes it isn't so much isolation from a norm, but profound outside influences on the language itself which requires it to change. For instance, a city that lives in the midst of an active volcano may develop language based on the unique experiences. Over time, this affected language adapts even further and affects other terms and experiences. Thus, a dialect can manifest itself as a result of the natives' environment and experiences, which causes - even requires - the language to adapt.

I've expressed time and time again to warn against the erroneous thinking that language is meant to be static - it is not. The goal of language is to facilitate communication, not limitation.

Rolling that thought around the roof of my brain, I'd certainly think its possible for some cat colony to develop a "truly" different dialect, but I'd assume the circumstances would have to come close to cataclysmic, no pun intended. Say some lost colony stranded in a system that suffers from natural disasters approaching the lost colony found by the Havenites, who may or may not have benefit of celery or a replacement.

However, I would hesitate boarding a bus opposed to the possibility simply because of telempathy.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:58 am

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cthia wrote:It's certainly an interesting question requiring profound thinking to conceive of it, and to settle on an answer. I don't think we know enough detail about the mechanics of treecat language to make an informed decision.


"Doubtful" because the Treecats don't have a language to distort into dialects. The sign language they use is a human language, and as noted that could quickly develop dialects, but the treecats didn't even understand what a language WAS for centuries.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by cthia   » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:28 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:It's certainly an interesting question requiring profound thinking to conceive of it, and to settle on an answer. I don't think we know enough detail about the mechanics of treecat language to make an informed decision.


"Doubtful" because the Treecats don't have a language to distort into dialects. The sign language they use is a human language, and as noted that could quickly develop dialects, but the treecats didn't even understand what a language WAS for centuries.


Agreed. Though "doubtful" is not an absolute. Treecats don't have a language - as we understand language. But we don't understand Treecat language enough to make a definitive decision.

Saying that Treecats don't have a language to distort into dialects may be sticking your neck out too far. It is saying that their language cannot become even more efficient. That it cannot evolve. Hard to believe it can, or will, but still. We do know that certain disastrous events can affect their language profoundly. Like the unavailability of certain chemicals, found in their own native root or in celery. And also by the example of what happened to Nimitz, which could conceivably happen naturally by some mechanism of the environment. So it isn't wholly inconceivable that a combination of things could affect their language in ways that surpass even an adoption of a dialect.

Remember, in the beginning it is proposed that mankind spoke only one language and that language was efficient until some profound God-like event separated the tongues and made us babble. I just think we should remain open to the possibility that the Treecats or some Treecat colony could experience their own Tower of Babel - however unlikely or improbable.

Treecats have "channels" of communication. These channels could become affected in some unforeseen ways, one of which we know of. The lack of a certain chemical.

At any rate, I personally remain open to the faint possibility that two completely separated Treecat populations can develop different dialects. Telempathy is still a form of communication. Communication is vulnerable to change, even without the chemical dependency experienced by the 'Cats.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by cthia   » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:33 am

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In fact, Nimitz' direct communication with the limitations of Honor, as well as any other future Treecat communication made directly to an advanced but still limited two-leg, could develop into a dialect of its own.

I would imagine that in some instances, the ability of Honor's to receive images would still be preferable to better understand some difficult to describe thought or phenomena, that may be impossible to sign - considering the limitations of sign language born of the limitations of the words, phrases and experiences of humanity. Some things just don't translate, or is lost in translation.

With Raoul and the upcoming generation of varying human capabilities, a new form of Treecat language may emerge as a result.

Dumbed down for human consumption, it's called two-leg dialect.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by cthia   » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:55 pm

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ThisName1 wrote:If treecats form colonies on a bunch of planets would their mind voices develop dialects? Maybe to the point of making it hard for some dialects to understand others?


If a dialect does develop on some lost or displaced colony, I would think it highly doubtful the two dialects wouldn't be able to understand each other. I would guess that only one channel would be affected by the dialect change.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by cthia   » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:39 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:It's certainly an interesting question requiring profound thinking to conceive of it, and to settle on an answer. I don't think we know enough detail about the mechanics of treecat language to make an informed decision.


"Doubtful" because the Treecats don't have a language to distort into dialects. The sign language they use is a human language, and as noted that could quickly develop dialects, but the treecats didn't even understand what a language WAS for centuries.
Do pardon my boldness.

I can't seem to figure out why this would matter. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think that a dialect change is a conscious decision. Isn't it a naturally occurring phenomena? Therefore, awareness, insight, cognizance and appreciation of a language, or the lack thereof, would not prevent it from evolving.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mind voice dialects.
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:33 pm

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cthia wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:"Doubtful" because the Treecats don't have a language to distort into dialects. The sign language they use is a human language, and as noted that could quickly develop dialects, but the treecats didn't even understand what a language WAS for centuries.
Do pardon my boldness.

I can't seem to figure out why this would matter. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think that a dialect change is a conscious decision. Isn't it a naturally occurring phenomena? Therefore, awareness, insight, cognizance and appreciation of a language, or the lack thereof, would not prevent it from evolving.


All you say is true about any language and the various dialects thereof.

It is also totally irrelevant to Treecat Mind Voices. Dialects are variations or shifts in language. Treecats DO NOT HAVE A LANGUAGE and didn't even have the CONCEPT of language. In order to distort or evolve a language, you must have a language to start from. The treecats do NOT have a "native language." That is why they may develop dialects of treecat sign language, but they will never develop one for their mind voices. There IS NO LANGUAGE INVOLVED IN TREECAT TELEPATHY!
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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