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Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance

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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by ywing14   » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:05 pm

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Sigs wrote:
ywing14 wrote:
It took 200 years to get to the population level they are at on Darius.

Because they didn't want to risk accidental discovery and people asking uncomfortable questions. The population on earth increased 600% between 1800 and 2000, I think the MA can do much better with their technological start.



That's not all that quick. Darius works because they have genetic slavery there. Removing genetic slavery involves giving people freedom of movement. It is easy to keep the lid on one system right now. More systems and more freedom = more chances for things to go wrong.
So the alternative is what? Restrict the MA to Darius and try again in a couple of centuries? At what point does it become too much repeating the same thing over and over again before someone says enough is enough? Do you know what the definition of insanity is?

Not to mention it's the opposite of going back to basics and following the KISS principle.
How is that? By expanding away from the rest of humanity and building their society and increasing industry, population, territory and military it is all within their control. Staying and trying to manipulate multiple nations to do what you want them to do is a lot more complicated and a lot more likely to fail again and they will be in the exact same position as they are now, limited resources, limited industry, limited population and limited navy. If they can't build their own society far from humanity all on their own maybe they aren't all that superior to the rest of humanity, in fact they may very well be quite inferior.


They still risk discovery and uncomfortable questions regardless. The MAlign has been going at their strategy for 600 years. What does 200 more make? Given the decision to hit Beowulf I am not certain the Detweiler kids have the patience to wait. But that's besides the point. I don't necessarily see the one system thing limiting them. It didn't limit Manticore in their original build up. I could get onboard with the other planet thing if they goo waaaayyy far away from known space but sticking around in the area doesn't really make sense to me.

I don't think Colonizing planets regardless of tech levels is simple. Especially if they want to make the adjustments to free societies like you mentioned earlier.
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by cthia   » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:46 pm

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Do we know for a fact that they aren't already waayyyy the hell away from known space? Via several unknown wormhole jumps away?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by ywing14   » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:51 pm

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cthia wrote:Do we know for a fact that they aren't already waayyyy the hell away from known space? Via several unknown wormhole jumps away?


Touche
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by ywing14   » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:53 pm

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cthia wrote:Do we know for a fact that they aren't already waayyyy the hell away from known space? Via several unknown wormhole jumps away?


Though if I recall correctly it's been stated that it is located off of the Felix Junction located near Mannerheim.
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Nimitz1923PD   » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:07 am

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ywing14 wrote:
cthia wrote:Do we know for a fact that they aren't already waayyyy the hell away from known space? Via several unknown wormhole jumps away?


Though if I recall correctly it's been stated that it is located off of the Felix Junction located near Mannerheim.


About 10 LY & most of the MDF & know about it An open seceret for those with Jessyk Combine contacts

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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by ywing14   » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:18 am

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Ah thank you Nimitz for clarifying.
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Annachie   » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:23 am

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Well yes, given B through G, the best thing for the MAlign is unlikely to ve done.

But then I'd argue that it wasn't done in the first place.
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Nimitz1923PD   » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:25 am

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Annachie wrote:Well yes, given B through G, the best thing for the MAlign is unlikely to ve done.

But then I'd argue that it wasn't done in the first place.


:?:
What was done about 150 years ago Jessyk Combine found an unknown wormhole junction The Omnipotant Detwieler Clan kept to its self & killed or threatened anyone else who had knowledge of it
:!:

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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Sigs   » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:17 pm

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cthia wrote:Do we know for a fact that they aren't already waayyyy the hell away from known space? Via several unknown wormhole jumps away?


In one of the books, when there was a discussion about Darius it came out that the MA didn't start seriously developing it until the last 100-150 years out of fear that someone might stumble on it by accident and start asking questions. That leads me to believe that Darius is close enough to be in danger.

Either way though, it still leaves them in the uncomfortable position of being only a single system nation that is being hunted by the two most powerful nations in existence and they are mighty motivated. What I am suggesting is to use Darius as a spring board to expand as far away from the rest of humanity as possible and still be able to be within reasonable communication and expand in that area. Create a firebreak between Darius and the rest of the MA so if Darius falls they don't lead the GA to the rest of the MA. Right now if Darius falls the MA s finished, chances are that the RF will keep quiet and eventually die out as an MA organism and become just another star nation.

If they don't expand they will always be limited by their industry and population, they will always have to rely on luck to not be found out and what's more they will always have to have complicated plans that require everyone to do what they expect them to do rather than being able to a) demonstrate their society is superior or b)force the other side militarily. If they don't expand and go for another 600 years of planning they will be that much worse for it because they will still be just one system while the GA grows into a nation of it's own with hundreds of systems. Imagine what 600 years of development would do to Haven and the SEM not to mention if don right what those 600 years would do to the verge and their loyalty to the GA.
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Sigs   » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:41 pm

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ywing14 wrote:
They still risk discovery and uncomfortable questions regardless. The MAlign has been going at their strategy for 600 years. What does 200 more make?

Ask yourself this, what does 200 years mean for the GA? The SEM has something like 50-60 systems all of them currently recovering from their industry being destroyed or having no industry to speak of, 200 years down the road it would be very different. Haven probably has 100 systems what do you think 200 years of open trade and alliance with the SEM would mean?

In 200 years, unless something unforeseen and dramatic happens the GA would be in a much stronger position industry wise, economically and population wise. And if the League does not collapse? Even worse, they may stamp out much of the corruption and become a friendly power to the GA, with a powerful industry, economy, population and military.



Given the decision to hit Beowulf I am not certain the Detweiler kids have the patience to wait.
They don't have much of an option, they come out in the open or they go into hiding. Coming out in the open means they get steamrolled by the GA eventually, hiding gives them a chance of long term survival and success. Besides if they don't have the patience, maybe they don't deserve to exist as a nation after all.





I don't necessarily see the one system thing limiting them. It didn't limit Manticore in their original build up.
Yeah but Manticore had the MWWJ and all the trade from their merchant marine plus exports amongst other things, Darius doesn't have those advantages because even if they have a junction they can't use it, they can't join the galactic economy and likely they cannot get much help from the RF without endangering the RF too much.


I could get onboard with the other planet thing if they goo waaaayyy far away from known space but sticking around in the area doesn't really make sense to me.
I am talking about getting far away to not risk getting accidentally found but not too far away to make communication impossible. They would still want to have their ear to the ground where the rest of humanity is concerned if for no other reason then to get technological parity. I would think there would be nothing worse from their point of view then to go away, meet up with humanity due to mutual expansion several hundred years down the road and be technologically outclassed by the rest of humanity.

I don't think Colonizing planets regardless of tech levels is simple. Especially if they want to make the adjustments to free societies like you mentioned earlier.

Why? Humanity colonized several thousand planets in 1,900 years and all without really having much of a master plan, if the MA made the effort with a workable plan and their ability to essentially grown human beings and grow their population the old fashioned way will help them. Instead of taking those humans they "grow" and making them slaves they place them with families and those families raise them as their own. When the MA makes it a societal norm to have large families population growth should not be a problem. In the meantime industrial growth should not be a problem either, focus on building industry in a systematic way with an eye to colonizing other planets. Darius is used as the source to colonize 4 planets, with a plan and mutual assistance those 4 systems can spend 40 years building up industry and population and colonize 16 other planets within those 40 years, another 40 years they colonize 80 more planets and so forth and so forth with every phase of the plan they can colonize more and more, and with every phase it should become easier and easier since they would already know what they can expect.
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