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Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance

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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by cthia   » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:41 pm

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n7axw wrote:Maybe not a large military, but I wouldn't be surprised by a large secret police if it goes as Cthia suggests.

Here is another thought. Imagine Darius being found and neutralized as a threat. Then the RF develops as a normal star nation. Or do they take up the fallen cause...more powerful and dangerous than before. That is where a large military comes into play

Don

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Isn't the RFN, in reality, already the MA's secret police? Your notion of a secret police gels well with my post upstream which forsees the writing on the wall that the RFN will become a sort of Frontier Fleet to collect the financial and military support from the new members that the RF needs to remain intact. The proof is in the pudding.

Also, will one of the RF sponsored planets become the seat of government, which will take the heat during confrontations with the galaxy?

Will any of the Houdini'd families be allowed on any of the RF sponsored worlds? Possibly running into one of their old family members that were left behind on Mesa, accidentally? Oops.

Psychologically, hasn't the large navy already been built? Since their unprecedented tech has allowed them to accomplish some amazing hit-n-runs and garnered unprecedented fear? Now they've got to stay the course and finish what they've started, because people are out to get them. In the minds of people they've hurt, Manticoran citizens, an inner fear must already exist that some day a powerful navy is coming over the hyper limit. They can't rely on remaining undiscovered without a contingency plan to support centuries of hard work. The MA will not only secretly support the RF, but vice versa. And if the RF is going to militarily support Darius, then it must begin to jockey for strategic position within League space now, by swallowing up systems that have a strategic advantage of geographic location that enables support for Darius and its wormhole, by quickly enabling a two-pronged attack.

If hostilities develop in the region of the fractured Solarian League and the RF has to go to war, will they be supported by Darius' warships? If a few skirmishes develop between the RF and say, the GA or the Anderman Empire and suddenly the Lenny Dets attack the enemy, won't that fact connect the dots? And vice versa, if the junction to Darius is discovered and the RF jumps into the ensuing battles, won't that also connect the dots? Yet I can't imagine either of them sitting idly by watching the other destroyed, since they are joined at the hip.

At any rate, knowing the location of their own junction, and the schematics of their own endgame, Darius has a leg up on what systems will represent the best basing options for their RFN.

Who will the RF allow itself to trade with? Trading with your enemy tends to rub one the wrong way. Remember Grayson and Masada and the appalling notion Houseman had that they should trade? What reasons will they give not to want to trade with the GA or anyone else who trades with them? I guess if trading with your enemy helps you, its ok.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:02 am

cthia
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If you were the MA, wouldn't you position a stealthed ship outside of the junction to watch it at all times? If someone comes nosing around and do find it, they'll never get a chance to report it.

"Oh shit! Incomi--"


Isn't there a chance that the azure bleed of downward translations will be noticed?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Dauntless   » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:23 am

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depends upon how patient they are willing to be.

don't forget Albrect speed up the plan, a lot and i don't just mean houdini.

if
, though UH has demonstrated certain temper issues, they are willing to return to the plan and slowly let attitudes change, now that mesa has fallen, and use some judicious PR. then in a century/3 they could have what they want.

the biggest issue they have is a desire to see it now & rub Beowulf's face in their defeat.
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by JohnRoth   » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:45 pm

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Dauntless wrote:depends upon how patient they are willing to be.

don't forget Albrect speed up the plan, a lot and i don't just mean houdini.

if
, though UH has demonstrated certain temper issues, they are willing to return to the plan and slowly let attitudes change, now that mesa has fallen, and use some judicious PR. then in a century/3 they could have what they want.

the biggest issue they have is a desire to see it now & rub Beowulf's face in their defeat.


Actually, Albrecht did not speed up the plan. They were supposed to go to the next phase when the SL fell apart, leaving the area in chaos. They had their timing right, except that Honor intervened. She kept the SL intact instead of breaking it up.

I expect they'll calm down and get back on track.
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:57 pm

cthia
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JohnRoth wrote:
Dauntless wrote:depends upon how patient they are willing to be.

don't forget Albrect speed up the plan, a lot and i don't just mean houdini.

if
, though UH has demonstrated certain temper issues, they are willing to return to the plan and slowly let attitudes change, now that mesa has fallen, and use some judicious PR. then in a century/3 they could have what they want.

the biggest issue they have is a desire to see it now & rub Beowulf's face in their defeat.


Actually, Albrecht did not speed up the plan. They were supposed to go to the next phase when the SL fell apart, leaving the area in chaos. They had their timing right, except that Honor intervened. She kept the SL intact instead of breaking it up.

I expect they'll calm down and get back on track.


What? Wait! What?

Although that's a spoiler, thanks. WAIT!!! WHAT???!!!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:00 pm

cthia
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Where does that leave the Renaissance Factor?

The MAlign must be highly pissed at the Manticorans and that damn Harrington!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Theemile   » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:31 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
Dauntless wrote:depends upon how patient they are willing to be.

don't forget Albrect speed up the plan, a lot and i don't just mean houdini.

if
, though UH has demonstrated certain temper issues, they are willing to return to the plan and slowly let attitudes change, now that mesa has fallen, and use some judicious PR. then in a century/3 they could have what they want.

the biggest issue they have is a desire to see it now & rub Beowulf's face in their defeat.


Actually, Albrecht did not speed up the plan. They were supposed to go to the next phase when the SL fell apart, leaving the area in chaos. They had their timing right, except that Honor intervened. She kept the SL intact instead of breaking it up.

I expect they'll calm down and get back on track.


OB was the speed up. It was supposed to wait until the Leonard Detweiler's were in service and Haven's shipyards was supposed to be hit at the same time (Can't remember, maybe the Andy's and Beowulf's too).

So the plan "was" a couple years ahead of schedule (at least on that front). Who knows what they would call it now. Not having a powerful MAN had to constrain the actions the MAlign could make via direct action, even though we've seen how good they are using just their abilities to influence others, and play with their toys.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Dauntless   » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:41 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
Actually, Albrecht did not speed up the plan. They were supposed to go to the next phase when the SL fell apart, leaving the area in chaos. They had their timing right, except that Honor intervened. She kept the SL intact instead of breaking it up.

I expect they'll calm down and get back on track.


Theemile covers it fairly well. now yes it was only a few years but it was much earlier then had planned. mostly due to it starting to look like the annexation of the Quadrant would go through despite the MAs efforts. having the RMN that much closer really made them nervous.

without that they would probably have continued to use Haven as a cats paw and slowly watched the SL kill itself.
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:21 pm

cthia
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Dauntless wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:
Actually, Albrecht did not speed up the plan. They were supposed to go to the next phase when the SL fell apart, leaving the area in chaos. They had their timing right, except that Honor intervened. She kept the SL intact instead of breaking it up.

I expect they'll calm down and get back on track.


Theemile covers it fairly well. now yes it was only a few years but it was much earlier then had planned. mostly due to it starting to look like the annexation of the Quadrant would go through despite the MAs efforts. having the RMN that much closer really made them nervous.

without that they would probably have continued to use Haven as a cats paw and slowly watched the SL kill itself.



Now that I'm over the initial shock, I'm kind of relieved. Remember my post upstream where I admitted to sadness that the Sol System - the cradle of civilization - were going out like that? The League itself didn't deserve to suffer such a severe penalty for a handful of fools. Now I see and understand a little of what RFC said in a post that he will "wrap things up in a manner that will satisfy most people." Ok then...

Still don't know where that leaves the RF. I imagine the MA is going to come out swinging and kewing. Dammit, somebody is going to pay if they go all in. Nanite assassins, Lennys to collect on debts and KEWS for Fools!

Oops, I almost forgot. Thanks again JohnRoth for sparing me from more wading down that empty rabbit hole. You're an officer and a gentleman.

I really didn't see how the MA were going to feasibly pull that particular endgame off. Apparently RFC didn't either. :mrgreen:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Mesan Alignment - Back on Balance
Post by Dauntless   » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:32 am

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I'm guessing with the SL gone they would have said its laws, like beowulf restrictions on Genetic engineering, no longer applied.

then they would have started letting people mod their children to a greater degree then generally has been permitted. after a decade/2 to see how that was going then further mods would have allowed. etc etc until there billions of normal sane humans walking around that were proof that being a geennie wasn't a bad thing. from there it becomes fashionable and all the elites children must be gennies.

once the elites are all gennies then everyone else who isn't gennie will be deemed as unimportant. then the non-geenies become second class citizens, who can't vote. can't own property. can't hold govenment office.

you see where this is going?

a non gennie parent will mortgage their soul to have a gennie child, who can do everything they can not. eventually there are no more "natrual" humans being born and they slowly die out.

then those gennies of "peasant" parents will be reduce to the same menial work that was all their non gennie ancestors were allowed to do.
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