Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dauntless, emeye, Google [Bot] and 3 guests

Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:27 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5100
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

cthia wrote:Can Thomas Bachfish be pardoned? Why can't he be rehabilitated? It's different across the galaxy with Alfredo and Co., with Haven. But Bachfish's slate should have been cleared by now. He certainly earned it. If what is good for the goose is good for the gander, then what's good for Jaruwalski is good for the 'fish. Heck, Jaruwalski's crime was close to Alfredo's than Bachfish's.

Don, thanks. But you are simply being kind. Thanks for the kindness. But the original list sucks. I wasn't trying to be exhaustive. I knew I was forgetting quite a few. Probably several that I failed to even realize moved within Honor's RSVP sphere.


He really wasn't "convicted." The board decided to beach him and put him on half pay. As for rehabilitating him, he seems to have dropped off the radar of everybody but ONI. Then, too, he didn't stick around the Star Kingdom. He went back to Silesia where he managed to get himself set up with some merchant ships/Q ships and was doing good work against pirates. Except for Givens using him as a contact in her intel networks and apparently helping him acquire one of his Q Ships from the Andies, he doesn't have a lot of contact with the navy. At least part of that seems to have been a matter of choice. He was a proud man wanting to make his mark and that was how he went about it.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:45 pm

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4255
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

cthia wrote:Can Thomas Bachfish be pardoned? Why can't he be rehabilitated? ...


You would have to get him to agree to be "rehabilitated" (a pardon is not applicable because he didn't commit a crime.)

Honor offered to get him back on full pay and he refused.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by cthia   » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:03 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 10053
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Can Thomas Bachfish be pardoned? Why can't he be rehabilitated? ...


You would have to get him to agree to be "rehabilitated" (a pardon is not applicable because he didn't commit a crime.)

Honor offered to get him back on full pay and he refused.

Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Can Thomas Bachfish be pardoned? Why can't he be rehabilitated? ...


You would have to get him to agree to be "rehabilitated" (a pardon is not applicable because he didn't commit a crime.)

Honor offered to get him back on full pay and he refused.


One does not have to be charged with a crime to be pardoned. A pardon can head off potential danger. A preemptive strike. It can readjust forks in the road of a career. 'Course, who knows how that works under a Monarchy?

Now that you mentioned it, didn't he give reasons for refusing something akin to not wanting Honor to risk tainting her own career, sticking her nose out for him? Which she would have done gladly.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by Annachie   » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:11 am

Annachie
Admiral

Posts: 2231
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 pm

It wouldn't suprise me to find that a large part of him being unrehabilitated was because of the spying he was doing in Silesia.

And that he's been left "on the beach" to let him still "trade" into the Andi side.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by cthia   » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:45 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 10053
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Annachie wrote:It wouldn't suprise me to find that a large part of him being unrehabilitated was because of the spying he was doing in Silesia.

And that he's been left "on the beach" to let him still "trade" into the Andi side.


What a wonderful way to look at it. Probably more than a bit of truth in it as well. Considering the advantages of prolong that we mere mortals can never grasp, there are several lifetimes of chances for a career in the Honorverse. At least there's time to salvage at least one of Bachfish's.

I'm sure he's proud to do his part in Silesia and whatever else come what may. But at the end of the day, I'd assume he'd love to die in a Queen's uniform. When the time is right.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:24 pm

Fox2!
Captain of the List

Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:34 am
Location: Huntsville, AL

Weird Harold wrote:
Senior Chief wrote:I think everyone has forgotten Honor's dead guardsman...


That would be Armsmen, plural. They don['t really show up until FiE (Maybe FoD?)

The list of the inner circle deceased in her service is probably longer than active members of her inner circle.


The Armsmen show up in Field of Dishonor.
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:39 am

Theemile
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3159
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio USA

Annachie wrote:It wouldn't suprise me to find that a large part of him being unrehabilitated was because of the spying he was doing in Silesia.

And that he's been left "on the beach" to let him still "trade" into the Andi side.


To lend to that, while on 1/2 pay, he continued to gain rank, and was a Admiral (Probably Rear) at the time of WoH.

Given his thoughts at the time about the RMN internal political issues and problems with privilege, what happened to him most likely left a sour taste in his mouth, even though he too believed he earned his fate (he had been suckered into close combat with a superior opponent, and only the actions of a midshipwoman saved his ship. Without her actions, HE would have lost the ship).

The shakeup of 3 wars and several major scandals have winnowed the ranks (and power) of the political officers severely, and the effects of officers like Courvoisier and Harrington at Saganami Island, setting the mold for future officers, has made the RMN a different place than it was 50 years earlier. Given the current climate, if the Queen asked him for his assistance in Silesia, I doubt if he would refuse.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:32 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 10053
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Can Thomas Bachfish be pardoned? Why can't he be rehabilitated? ...


You would have to get him to agree to be "rehabilitated" (a pardon is not applicable because he didn't commit a crime.)

Honor offered to get him back on full pay and he refused.


How exactly does the beaching thing work? Does beaching automatically denote half pay?

If what Honor offered is to get Bachfish back on full pay, was she also offering to get him reprieved? Or can full pay accompany being beached?

And about this not being "convicted." So yes, he wasn't convicted of a statutory crime of the legal system. But he certainly transgressed military acceptance, which makes him guilty of something in the eyes of the military. And he can be pardoned for those transgressions.


Am I correct that in the entire history of the RMN, Pavel Young is the only officer dishonorably discharged? As far as the readers know.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by Dauntless   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:32 pm

Dauntless
Commodore

Posts: 838
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:54 pm
Location: United Kingdom

I belive that beached is slang for half pay.

in theory I suppose you could be beached as in removed from ship command but still employed somewhere else, i.e. Vulcan or some other non ship duty but generally it seems to be used for those on half pay.

he failed to properly plan for the fight, and his ship only survived because of an exceptional snotty. in wartime, he might just have gotten a reprimand and temp shore duty for a while as bad things happen in war and no-one can be prepaered for everything, but this was peacetime so he was relived. I believe it was quietly made clear that he would never have another ship command and promotion and anything other then crap assignments would be VERY unlikely.

besides much like honor, master after god of you own ship is what just about every good officer dreams of and often mourns when promoted out of it.

hlaf-pay does not affect time in grade when it comes to promotions, i think, yet it still took years to be promoted to full admiral (no mention of exactly how many, just that he was promoted "some time ago". when we learn that though it was nearly 40 years after the incident, during that time we had the first peep war which had the SKM promoting fighting captains left & right. I do believe he could have come back to service if he had really wanted to, but shame & the help he was being to ONI meant that he didn't try.
Top
Re: Honor's Inner Circle: RSVP?
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:01 pm

Theemile
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3159
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio USA

Dauntless wrote:I belive that beached is slang for half pay.

in theory I suppose you could be beached as in removed from ship command but still employed somewhere else, i.e. Vulcan or some other non ship duty but generally it seems to be used for those on half pay.

he failed to properly plan for the fight, and his ship only survived because of an exceptional snotty. in wartime, he might just have gotten a reprimand and temp shore duty for a while as bad things happen in war and no-one can be prepaered for everything, but this was peacetime so he was relived. I believe it was quietly made clear that he would never have another ship command and promotion and anything other then crap assignments would be VERY unlikely.

besides much like honor, master after god of you own ship is what just about every good officer dreams of and often mourns when promoted out of it.

hlaf-pay does not affect time in grade when it comes to promotions, i think, yet it still took years to be promoted to full admiral (no mention of exactly how many, just that he was promoted "some time ago". when we learn that though it was nearly 40 years after the incident, during that time we had the first peep war which had the SKM promoting fighting captains left & right. I do believe he could have come back to service if he had really wanted to, but shame & the help he was being to ONI meant that he didn't try.



After you reach a certain point in your career, you can go on 1/2 pay (I don't remember but I believe it is Senior captain.) After that point you can be placed there because of political reasons, or performance reasons, but it usually indicates that someone doesn't want you in command for some reason, but also doesn't have the proof against you to dismiss you for cause. You continue to accrue seniority and receive time forced promotions, on top of your pay.

Honor and White Haven went on half pay during WoH. White Haven was placed on 1/2 pay several times in his career, as the political winds changed, and Honor 2x. So in the RMN, it's not necessarily a stigma. Bachfitch was considered a well regarded, competent, senior Captain before the incident, but with no political connections. He has them now, so I don't see why he wouldn't be accepted back into the RMN ranks, especially with the RMN's losses.

It probably started as a political weapon and a way to keep the politically connected idiots away from higher command.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top

Return to Honorverse