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[spoiler] The future of missile combat

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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Nimitz1923PD   » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 pm

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Theemile wrote:
Theemile wrote:
LAC Carriers went to the grave with wet navies

Balistic flight missles ( ala Baracade) have no sidewalls - Remote Drones/ Platforms meet MY FTL Targeted Pet Rock


The last I checked, The RMN, GSN and the RHN built over 500 LAC carriers in the last 5 years of the series, I'd hardly call that going to the grave. we saw LACS from 2 carrier rip apart the Ajax raid....without loses.

missiles on a ballistic flight path are dozens of kilometers from each other, it would take innumerable unguided kinetic interceptors to cover that volume effectively. That is why 10-20 km wide wedges are used guided by FTL com drones. Space is HUGE....


1 LAC Carriers were resurected from The Grave

Who said unguided Pet Rocks

2. That would depend on how good your control missle was

Nimitz
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Daryl   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:22 am

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In the 1950s the British Navy was carrying out police operations around Malaysia and Singapore with their absolutely latest guided missile destroyers. The Captains had a dilemma, having decided that guns were old hat they had none, so did you use a million pound missile to take out a pirate junk that refused to stop? They were retrofitted with 20 mm Bofers, as a temporary measure.
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Maldorian   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:25 am

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Now, if we're discussing 1933, Yes, the cataphract will have proliferated, and the Mk 36 will as well. Pod launched Capacitor MDM tech probably will be be on the market, but not mk 16s, unless the RMN has had another quantum leap in warfighting capability. And any MDM pod will still be considered too expensive for a pirate to waste on a merchie.


The Maya sector has MK16 missles. Does anyone believe, that every sailor there is 100% loyal to the "new goverment"? I could imagine, that the one or other sailer take some pictures of the new hardware or even blueprints an bring them to the remaining league, because of loyality for the league, or selling it to a solly weapon company.

So, I see a chance to see MK16 copy´s on the market.
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by munroburton   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:47 am

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Theemile wrote:I didn't include the viper because it is not a universal classification, they are expensive and only the GA has them.


Daryl wrote:In the 1950s the British Navy was carrying out police operations around Malaysia and Singapore with their absolutely latest guided missile destroyers. The Captains had a dilemma, having decided that guns were old hat they had none, so did you use a million pound missile to take out a pirate junk that refused to stop? They were retrofitted with 20 mm Bofers, as a temporary measure.


This is why I mentioned the Viper. It might be restricted to the GA currently, but how difficult is it really to fit a small warhead+rod on a countermissile?

Especially if ships are being redesigned to fire multi-drive missiles and the traditional single-drive shipkiller begins to disappear. I can't see a viper type missile being more expensive than an ERM or DDM from the same manufacturing tech base.
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:30 am

Theemile
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Maldorian wrote:
Now, if we're discussing 1933, Yes, the cataphract will have proliferated, and the Mk 36 will as well. Pod launched Capacitor MDM tech probably will be be on the market, but not mk 16s, unless the RMN has had another quantum leap in warfighting capability. And any MDM pod will still be considered too expensive for a pirate to waste on a merchie.


The Maya sector has MK16 missles. Does anyone believe, that every sailor there is 100% loyal to the "new goverment"? I could imagine, that the one or other sailer take some pictures of the new hardware or even blueprints an bring them to the remaining league, because of loyality for the league, or selling it to a solly weapon company.

So, I see a chance to see MK16 copy´s on the market.


Erewhon/Maya has Mk 14 ERMs and their own derivatives of them (They are calling it the mk 17) and Capacitor 3 drive MDMS off the Mk 41. It's never been mentioned that they have the Mk 23 3-drive fusion missile, let alone the mk 16 dual drive fusion missile.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:23 am

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Theemile wrote:Erewhon/Maya has Mk 14 ERMs and their own derivatives of them (They are calling it the mk 17) and Capacitor 3 drive MDMS off the Mk 41.


I don't recall any mention of the three-drive capacitor MDMs in Erewhon. IIRC, there is textev that they developed the Mk-17s because they did NOT have MDM tech.

If they did have capacitor MDM tech, it would be a trivial exercise to design a capacitor based DDM. Reducing it in size down to a DD/CL missile would be the real challenge.

Erewhon also is never mentioned as having the "Mod G" improved grav lensing that makes the Mk-16G a "capitol grade" missile. It is mentioned that the "Mod G" tech could be applied to the LERM and ERM missiles to make the much more effective, but there's no mention of it actually having been done.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Dauntless   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:38 am

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there was lots of talk just before the battle of torch about how rozark would have X missile but soon erewhon would be delivering better.

or was that just about better pods and not the missiles within the pods

the mk numbers escape me and as I can't access my ebook due to some weirdness on the bean site (that has been going on for 4 days), I can't check
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:57 am

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Dauntless wrote:there was lots of talk just before the battle of torch about how rozark would have X missile but soon erewhon would be delivering better.

or was that just about better pods and not the missiles within the pods

the mk numbers escape me and as I can't access my ebook due to some weirdness on the bean site (that has been going on for 4 days), I can't check


The Follow-on missile was supposed to be a MDM, which was also designed to arm the Podlayers. I don't knw if it was a 2 or 3 drive missile, But the fact that it was taking so long to build it suggests that they knew the science, but had to develop the engineering and lines for the missile. So it's probably not a clone for the Mk 41, but definitely using it's technology.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:15 am

Theemile
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Weird Harold wrote:
Theemile wrote:Erewhon/Maya has Mk 14 ERMs and their own derivatives of them (They are calling it the mk 17) and Capacitor 3 drive MDMS off the Mk 41.


I don't recall any mention of the three-drive capacitor MDMs in Erewhon. IIRC, there is textev that they developed the Mk-17s because they did NOT have MDM tech.

If they did have capacitor MDM tech, it would be a trivial exercise to design a capacitor based DDM. Reducing it in size down to a DD/CL missile would be the real challenge.

Erewhon also is never mentioned as having the "Mod G" improved grav lensing that makes the Mk-16G a "capitol grade" missile. It is mentioned that the "Mod G" tech could be applied to the LERM and ERM missiles to make the much more effective, but there's no mention of it actually having been done.


The G mod changes include the rearrangement of the missile to allow the cruiser 5m lasing rods to be swapped with the capital 10m lasing rods as well as the advanced grav pinching and grav lensing, while the E-1 Mod just included improved grav pinching and grav lensing - which only increased damage by a factor of 4X iirc.

I have a feeling that the ERM and LERM treatment is more the way of the E-1 than the G, especially since UH mentioned that the ERMs fired from Sag-Bs had no business taking on wallers, but were perfect for taking apart Battlecruisers.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:34 pm

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Theemile wrote:I have a feeling that the ERM and LERM treatment is more the way of the E-1 than the G, especially since UH mentioned that the ERMs fired from Sag-Bs had no business taking on wallers, but were perfect for taking apart Battlecruisers.


It is entirely possible that the LERM and ERM missiles haven't been modified because the Yawata Strike interrupted planning for any upgrades. The only mention of upgrades to ERM and LERM is a strictly hypothetical idea of Helen Zilwiki thinking about how nice the Mk-16G is.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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