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[spoiler] The future of missile combat

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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Annachie   » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:26 pm

Annachie
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Dauntless wrote:we've drifted a bit (hardly a surprise) so lets start again.

a world with near SL core world tech and industry has decided it wants its own empire and doesn't care if worlds join willingly or are forced.


I'm not sure such a world could defend itself from the GA for the next few decades.
Well not without wall to wall missile pods anyway.

They would have to do it politically. Benign dictators as it were.
When the political system collapses, there's nothing wrong with empire building if you make things better for all your subjects.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:07 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:A primary benefit of the Apollo system is the multiplication of control channels.

Develop a two-stage missile by bolting together two standard missiles of any class and a contrive a control missile with an AI/fire-control repeater and the same drives. Build a pod-nought to dispense the pods that launch the DDCM and brood (the brood can be any size you're willing to build a pod big enough for) and Bob's Your Uncle. You've got a system that will both out-range and out-gun anything except a SD(P) with KH-II and Apollo pods.

Another factor in RMN/GA superiority is the destructiveness of missile warheads on a class-for-class basis. Where the Cataphract design (with a CM based second stage) had to downsize warheads to make the missiles tube-launchable, the RMN found ways to improve grav-pinching warheads and squeeze bigger lasing rods into smaller missiles.

Any "world with near SL core world tech and industry" should be able to increase the power of their warheads in some way. Put bigger warheads on smaller missiles would let you stack more stages fire-able from tubes. (or stack more DDMs in a DDCM pod's brood.)

Smaller ships, DDs and CLs shouldn't ever really need DDMs, though. They have no business standing up to CLs and bigger and their normal missions aren't worth the cost of shrinking a DDM to fit. Bigger warheads are probably a different story, though.


Yup, extend the Apollo sublight control capability--make a missile that commands 8 missiles and can accept command from another missile. Any ship can then fire a salvo capable of taking down anything. Decide how many missiles you want, put that many in space, if you can't control them you send out enough control missiles so you can, then send them all on their way. They would also have a better chance of hitting.
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Theemile   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:24 am

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:A primary benefit of the Apollo system is the multiplication of control channels.

Develop a two-stage missile by bolting together two standard missiles of any class and a contrive a control missile with an AI/fire-control repeater and the same drives. Build a pod-nought to dispense the pods that launch the DDCM and brood (the brood can be any size you're willing to build a pod big enough for) and Bob's Your Uncle. You've got a system that will both out-range and out-gun anything except a SD(P) with KH-II and Apollo pods.

Another factor in RMN/GA superiority is the destructiveness of missile warheads on a class-for-class basis. Where the Cataphract design (with a CM based second stage) had to downsize warheads to make the missiles tube-launchable, the RMN found ways to improve grav-pinching warheads and squeeze bigger lasing rods into smaller missiles.

Any "world with near SL core world tech and industry" should be able to increase the power of their warheads in some way. Put bigger warheads on smaller missiles would let you stack more stages fire-able from tubes. (or stack more DDMs in a DDCM pod's brood.)

Smaller ships, DDs and CLs shouldn't ever really need DDMs, though. They have no business standing up to CLs and bigger and their normal missions aren't worth the cost of shrinking a DDM to fit. Bigger warheads are probably a different story, though.


Yup, extend the Apollo sublight control capability--make a missile that commands 8 missiles and can accept command from another missile. Any ship can then fire a salvo capable of taking down anything. Decide how many missiles you want, put that many in space, if you can't control them you send out enough control missiles so you can, then send them all on their way. They would also have a better chance of hitting.


Essentially, the RMN doesn't "need" to do that now - each ACM in a salvo is networked with each other and the take given to one ACM from the mothership should be shared by all. If the launch platform is not in FTL control mode, all a mother ship would need to do is update the attack profiles of as many ACMs as possible over the RF links and let the ACMs do the grunt work.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Fox2!   » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:46 am

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Annachie wrote:
They would have to do it politically. Benign dictators as it were.
When the political system collapses, there's nothing wrong with empire building if you make things better for all your subjects.


Isn't that how Gustav Anderman started his little empire? Conquest, at least to the extent of having an unscheduled change in management, at the same time, fixing whatever problems the previous political power structure allowed to accumulate. IIRC, that's what happened when he took over New Potsdam to be, resolving a planetary plague while he was at it.
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by ywing14   » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:33 am

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Posts: 309
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Loren Pechtel wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:A primary benefit of the Apollo system is the multiplication of control channels.

Develop a two-stage missile by bolting together two standard missiles of any class and a contrive a control missile with an AI/fire-control repeater and the same drives. Build a pod-nought to dispense the pods that launch the DDCM and brood (the brood can be any size you're willing to build a pod big enough for) and Bob's Your Uncle. You've got a system that will both out-range and out-gun anything except a SD(P) with KH-II and Apollo pods.

Another factor in RMN/GA superiority is the destructiveness of missile warheads on a class-for-class basis. Where the Cataphract design (with a CM based second stage) had to downsize warheads to make the missiles tube-launchable, the RMN found ways to improve grav-pinching warheads and squeeze bigger lasing rods into smaller missiles.

Any "world with near SL core world tech and industry" should be able to increase the power of their warheads in some way. Put bigger warheads on smaller missiles would let you stack more stages fire-able from tubes. (or stack more DDMs in a DDCM pod's brood.)

Smaller ships, DDs and CLs shouldn't ever really need DDMs, though. They have no business standing up to CLs and bigger and their normal missions aren't worth the cost of shrinking a DDM to fit. Bigger warheads are probably a different story, though.


Yup, extend the Apollo sublight control capability--make a missile that commands 8 missiles and can accept command from another missile. Any ship can then fire a salvo capable of taking down anything. Decide how many missiles you want, put that many in space, if you can't control them you send out enough control missiles so you can, then send them all on their way. They would also have a better chance of hitting.

Essentially, the RMN doesn't "need" to do that now - each ACM in a salvo is networked with each other and the take given to one ACM from the mothership should be shared by all. If the launch platform is not in FTL control mode, all a mother ship would need to do is update the attack profiles of as many ACMs as possible over the RF links and let the ACMs do the grunt work.


In Storm From the Shadows, Gold Peak is doing a sim with Apollo and what she did was fire one Apollo off at ships located I think it was 84 Million kms away. Then delayed a full lanch by 30s. The as soon as the first Apollo pod reported its sensor readings they updated the full lunch with its targeting info.
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Re: [spoiler] The future of missile combat
Post by Annachie   » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:07 am

Annachie
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 pm

Actually, yeah that does sound like Gustav.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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